Thread: Abrasive Grit Comparison Sheet

Originally Posted by JimR

Thanks for this, man. I'm curious, where did you get the Shapton info? I emailed them asking for the micron info and never got an answer.

Speaking of which, does anyone have any idea about the Naniwa micron sizes? I called them and the rep I spoke to said he didn't have any idea about the microns, and was surprisingly unhelpful--he didn't offer any ideas how to get the information at all. This is very strange in Japan. Customer service is typically amazingly helpful...what's up with these hone companies???

I had a friend that speaks Japanese call them at 0285-72-7755 after I had the Glass stone info from their web site.

Since this was word of mouth and not a written and published table, I would be thrilled if anyone can correct me if they lay their hands on something in writing from Shapton.

I just emailed Naniwa to see if I can get anything useful from them.....we'll see.

I suppose the back of my GlassStones counts as
`in-writing'...

1000 mesh - 14.7 micron
2000 mesh - 7.35 micron
4000 mesh - 3.68 micron
8000 mesh - 1.84 micron
16000 mesh - 0.92 micron
30000 mesh - 0.49 micron

- Scott

This is slightly tangential, but I've found since using
the Shapton stones that the 4k is too fine to do what
I would consider minor sharpening. I've had to drop
down to the 2k on new razors a lot, and the grit
comparison to the Norton 4k sheds some light on
this.

Thanks!

- Scott

Originally Posted by sebell

This is slightly tangential, but I've found since using
the Shapton stones that the 4k is too fine to do what
I would consider minor sharpening. I've had to drop
down to the 2k on new razors a lot, and the grit
comparison to the Norton 4k sheds some light on
this.

Thanks!

- Scott

I've come to the same conclusion with the Shapton Pro and couldn't figure out why until Smokintbird posted the grit comparison chart.

OK let me see if I have this correct here,,,,

My GS 8k is a way higher grit then my Norton 8k????

My GS 4k is too high a grit to sharpen a razor I have to drop to my GS 2k????

My Norton 8k is almost the same as shaving off my GS 4k????

Did I sum that up correctly????

OK unfortunately this GS is calling BS at this point in time...

oh wait I found the line I was looking for in the small print....

It is impossible to make

exact comparisons between all the different abrasives because different standards are used for average, minimum and maximum size, the percentage allowed outside

those limits, and the distribution of sizes within those limits, but this list is the closest comparison available since all entries are compared to microns by their respective manufacturers.


Don't forget the how does it feel factor here, Shaving is what really separates the men from the boys so to speak when it come to honing..
This also does not take into account the tricks of the trade...

I am really just having a very hard time swallowing that a Norton 8k is closer to a GS 4k then a GS 8k
I guess I am going to have to try a shave off the GS 4k... I will post back soonest....if it shaves anywhere near as good as a Norton 8k I will stand corrected....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

OK let me see if I have this correct here,,,,

My GS 8k is a way higher grit then my Norton 8k????

My GS 4k is too high a grit to sharpen a razor I have to drop to my GS 2k????

My Norton 8k is almost the same as shaving off my GS 4k????

Did I sum that up correctly????

OK unfortunately this GS is calling BS at this point in time...

oh wait I found the line I was looking for in the small print....

It is impossible to make

exact comparisons between all the different abrasives because different standards are used for average, minimum and maximum size, the percentage allowed outside

those limits, and the distribution of sizes within those limits, but this list is the closest comparison available since all entries are compared to microns by their respective manufacturers.


Don't forget the how does it feel factor here, Shaving is what really separates the men from the boys so to speak when it come to honing..
This also does not take into account the tricks of the trade...

I am really just having a very hard time swallowing that a Norton 8k is closer to a GS 4k then a GS 8k
I guess I am going to have to try a shave off the GS 4k... I will post back soonest....if it shaves anywhere near as good as a Norton 8k I will stand corrected....

Update:

Ya know I was going to do a ton of writing at this point...
Lets just say I did some testing, and I'll just say that you should too....
Your face can be the judge....

I have used the Naniwa super stones with a 3/5 pyramid and shave tested. The results appear to me to be equal to a Norton 4/8. I have done this with two ebay razors so far. I have further refined the edge with the 8k and gotten a slightly smoother somewhat keener edge. This is with the Naniwa superstones.

Ron has my Shapton pros and is going to try pyramiding the 2/5 (they don't make a 3k). So if my suspicion is correct with the pros the 2/5 will yield similar results. I know that with the pros when I set a bevel on the 1k I used to really like to follow with the 2k. I really liked the performance and feel of the 2k.

Following that I would do pyramids on the 5/8 and it seemed to take longer than it would have with the Nortons. Had I been using the 2/5 instead I think I would have been pleased with the results. I think that would have been the way to go with those based on the grit charts.

Whatever the label is on a hone be it 4k or 8k the size of the microns would determine the performance ....... wouldn't it ? I know Tom (jendeindustries) mentioned the shape having an impact and I am sure that it does. All we can do is try them and see what works. I am completely open minded to that.

Originally Posted by sebell

I suppose the back of my GlassStones counts as
`in-writing'...

1000 mesh - 14.7 micron
2000 mesh - 7.35 micron
4000 mesh - 3.68 micron
8000 mesh - 1.84 micron
16000 mesh - 0.92 micron
30000 mesh - 0.49 micron

- Scott

Pam on Knifeforums just posted something interesting...

For the glass stone series,

Divide 14,700 by the grit size and you have the particle size in microns.

Divide 14,700 by the micron and you get the grit.

Multiply the grit by micron and you get 14,700.

(some of the numbers give small errors due to rounding. For example, the 4000 grit stone should have a 3.675 micron size, but since shapton only takes things to the hundredths, they round up to 3.68.)

So, apparently shapton considers a stone that has a one micron abrasive size to be a 14,700 grit stone.

Glenn - I completely understand your skepticism, I felt the same way at first, but after working on this for quite a while and trying comparisons of things like US to European sand paper and Norton to Japanese stones, I am forced to believe it....

BUT, don't take my word for it...compare what your glass stone says or better yet, their web site
(Ceramic On Tempered Glass : Shapton® Stones, Shapton® Sharpening Systems)

to what Norton says about their stones on their site

(http://www.nortonstones.com/Media/Do...nesCatalog.pdf)


Here's the kicker, and it gets me every time....I know that the scratch pattern from my Norton 4000 grit water stone (6 micron) is bigger than the scratch pattern from a friend's 4000 grit King water stone (3 micron), because I was able to see a sizable difference with a microscope...

...BUT...

....What these manufacturers don't say anything about, which could potentially make a HUGE difference (and does), is what the particles are made of and what shape they are.....

....I have seen some of the members on here saying that they would rather use 1 micron CrOx than 0.25 micron diamond paste because supposedly the diamond paste is so much more harsh, and as far as that goes, I saw a thread from ChrisL that said he got a reasonably comfortable shave from what was supposedly 50 micron CrOx, so what the actual sharpening media is made of DOES make a difference, since even ChrisL mentioned that he wouldn't try this with 500 grit sand paper....

Please let us know what you think of your Shapton Glass 4K shave compared to your Norton 8K shave....

...my guess is that the Norton will be smoother....Why, has to do with "Why Shaptons?"......the answer as far as I have ever heard is because Shaptons are more aggressive and work much faster.....but this might have the side effect of giving you a rougher shave also.

You might also try shaving from the Shapton Glass 8K and the Norton 8K and see if you think there is a significant difference in the feel of the two shaves....

I'm not at all an experienced honer, but I will say that I think this information has explained some things about problems I've had with honing. In my recent honing, I've been treating my King 4k and my Naniwa 8K like the Norton 4K/8K combo that is recommended around here--in pyramids and the like. I was getting good edges, but not great, and under magnification they looked very rough, like the 1k scratches were still present, even after a couple of rounds of aggressive pyramids.

HOWEVER, after reading this thread and reexamining my hones, I started doing pyramids with my 2K super stone and 4K King, then polishing on the 8K, and I am getting MUCH better edges, and they are glassy smooth under magnification. Of course, my use of pressure and the like is probably getting better just from more practice, but I can't help but think that the 2K/4K is a much better combination for smoothing out the low level scratches from my 1K diamond plate (which is actually not that great, and tears razors up something awful, but is really really fast for honing out chips and the like).

This would also tie in to my experience with the Japanese "Lapika" brand lapping film I picked up--clearly marked 2K=9 micron, 4K=3 micron, 8K=.5 and 10K =.3.