Thread: Honing with small stones (<2")

Originally Posted by khaos

I'm talking even smaller. Like 1"x1"... and rubbing the stone on the blade. Thoughts?

Would it not have been easier to secure the stone and move the razor? Seems like your method would take more concentration.
If you got a good edge from your slurry stone with a slything action, awesome! There are some blades that tend towards microchipping that I minimized by slything strokes on the hone. Kind of like flying into La Guardia AP. Seems like you are going to run out of runway but it always worked for may travlers. I think when the spine is not riding on the stone that is a deal breaker, but even then there could be possibilities.
M

I often use the 3 hones in my current avatar to bring vintage razors up to speed. Red F 600, green E 1200, and tan EE 8,000. 7/8" x 4 3/8".

They are nearly as fast as the 2" x 6" versions. On smiling edges, there is almost no difference at all.

I like the small, 5" slabs for finishing on, but that is about as small as i go down, size-wise.
Now, in an emergency, that may be a different story.
Your post are always fun to read Khaos.

Thanks,

Mac

I can't recall who posted it but when I first came around there was a discussion on the size of barber hones averaging 4x2. One of the experienced honers back then said that he thought it might be that a 4 or 5x2 would force the honer to use an angle of stroke that was optimum for a razor.

I have a few vintage coticules that are labeled and that I believe were marketed to barbers. One is labeled "Old Rock" and is 5x2, another is 4x2, I also have one labeled "Deep Rock" and it is a 4x2. I wonder if some of the barbers from back in those days liked the compact size of these for convenience, lower cost, or if they preferred to hone with a shorter hone than most of use like to work with these days ?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I can't recall who posted it but when I first came around there was a discussion on the size of barber hones averaging 4x2. One of the experienced honers back then said that he thought it might be that a 4 or 5x2 would force the honer to use an angle of stroke that was optimum for a razor.

I have a few vintage coticules that are labeled and that I believe were marketed to barbers. One is labeled "Old Rock" and is 5x2, another is 4x2, I also have one labeled "Deep Rock" and it is a 4x2. I wonder if some of the barbers from back in those days liked the compact size of these for convenience, lower cost, or if they preferred to hone with a shorter hone than most of use like to work with these days ?

Anyway you look at it, the barber stones were always on the smaller size. Even the full sized ones are not going to afford landing space for an airplane. You would think there would have been a "size war" among the manufactures if larger stones ere considered better by barbers for razors at the time.
M

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I wonder if some of the barbers from back in those days liked the compact size of these for convenience, lower cost, or if they preferred to hone with a shorter hone than most of use like to work with these days ?

Jimmy of course I have no idea, but it's fun to conjecture

My guess would be that the barber didn't like to hone. Just a few swipes occasionally was all that was ideally necessary to keep a razor sharp, so why keep around big, burdensome hones that encouraged spending more time on them? I know this concept is a difficult one for those who are stage 4 and beyond HADdicts, but nonetheless, it could be considered!

Obviously I'm not saying a bigger stone might not be able to do it better, but if its all you'e got? So it seems that its not "bad" for the razor per se, its just not the best option. But if one were to go camping or on an extensive business trip or something, dropping a nice slurry stone in your kit is a viable option. (Background to my story: I left all my stuff at my campus home but one razor and a 8x2 piece of strop leather when I came home to visit. Turns out I had forgotten this razor needed a touch up and as luck would have it I had a thury slurry stone lying in my bookcase)

A while back I posted asking if anyone had ever used a Lydian Stone, aka touchstone, to sharpen a razor. I had read a geological survey report that went into some detail about these stones and it stated that Lydian Stones belonged to the same geological grouping as hones, only with a much finer grain. I knew I had to get one of these stones, but one thing I hadn't counted on was the size; traditionally such stones are used to test the purity of gold and silver by making a streak of the mineral on the touchstone and comparing it with a colour chart to indicate the quality of the metal being tested. Obvioulsy such a stone doesn't need to be very big at all, but this wasn't something I had taken into account when I started looking. I was finally put in touch with a collector of Roman antiquities who happened to have some samples of Lydian stones, which had been identified as coming from the original source of these stones. He was very reluctant to let anything go, but we finally worked out a deal for a couple of stones in his collection. I didn't even bother to ask for details about the stones in question, and was more than a little disappointed when a 3" x 1" stone arrived. I like narrow hones, but the 3" length put me off quite a bit. What I finally settled on was having the stone held in a North West to South East position and holding the razor at NNW running SSE, I then move the stone and the razor in a clockwise oval motion at the same time. This way part of the spine and the edge are always in contact with the hone, but never for too long in one spot. This was quite a difficult method to adjust to whilst still keeping a light touch, but I use liquid soap mixed with water and that seems to work. It is also easier to use a scything motion in this way, which for me at least, results in a better edge. In spite of my initial disappointment over the size, my Touchstone imparts a very fine edge, and I now keep it on hand for quick-touch ups as needed, and I always use it after finishing on a Charnley or Nakayama.

As well as the touchstone, I also got one of the razor hones used by the ancient Romans. These are called Flamin stones and they originate from Spain. The example I have was recovered in Pompeii, and had been sealed in the lava for centuries. It is very soft, and brittle as noted by the Roman Natural Historian Pliny, and I can't imagine it would have survived all these years if it hadn't been sealed in as it was. This is another small stone, 4"x1", but I haven't used it yet. As well as it's brittle nature, another factor that has stopped me from trying it is that these stones are supposed to be used with saliva as a lubricant. I don't find the idea of shaving with a razor covered in spittle particularly appetising, even if it is my own and not someone elses.

Kindest regards,
Alex

There are the long Swaty variants that are a few inches longer than the standard. I bought three coticules from old barbers in the Newark, NJ area in the 1980s. I still kick myself for selling those in '06.

They were all 6x2 1/2 and stamped 'Made In Belgium' on the sides. From looking at the average shop layout I think that counter and drawer space may have had something to do with the sizes.

The majority of those guys rented a spot and the chair. They had the counter and cabinet space immediately behind the chair. So even for the rare barber who might have had HAD his storage space was limited. The first chair as you entered the establishment went to the top guy in the shop BTW.

As far as the barber hone for touch ups I knew more than one of those old fellows who kept the Swaty (or whichever one) in the pocket of his barber's smock. If needed he could get to it right now and it was not too long or cumbersome to carry. The coticules went under the counter or in the drawer and the barber used them for his rotation when he had down time. I wonder if some of the barbers might have sent their razors out for pro honing ? According to the manuals of the time it seems it would have been a matter of pride to hone their own.

As for the small size of natural hones originally marketed to barbers: part of the explanation may be that it was and is far easier to find top grade raw material in small sizes than it is to find larger pieces of flawless highest quality rock.

To return to the original question

Originally Posted by khaos

What I am wondering is, sure big stones are very convenient, but what is to stop us from using a little stone slid parallel to the edge (like old swords and scythes) or making small circles with a slurry stone?

the answer I think is in this remark:

Originally Posted by A_S

but never for too long in one spot

It is more difficult to ensure the razor is abraded evenly all along the edge rubbing it with a small stone than it is sweeping the entire length of it over a larger hone. As long as you are aware of this and prevent over- or under-honing of certain spots (eg using A_S's method) it should be fine.