i have to say i mostly shave wtg then axtg this gives aclose comfortable shave. Not every one can shave against the grain as it tears the skin for some fokes shaving agtg is the like plaining wood agtg it does'nt work as it taers the would its the same with your beard agtg under the lip is a defanat no no for me and most men. I find i can shave agtg but it takes a differant angle and technique i use a flat er angle and like bud says shiefing strokes