Thread: The differences among finishing stone.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

....We are talking on finishing stage .
we are not talking using tremendous pressure and getting similar edge on 1k level. i hope you understand what i mean.

Me, personally, I use the same pressure during the entire honing process specially honing full hollows because I want all the work to be done on the entire bevel and to stay consistent through the entire process. I will agree that for the very final finishing I go even lighter and thus have seen a kind of "band" on the very edge of the blade that would look like I taped the edge. Is that what you are seeing? J-Nats will bend your mind about honing, they are different than any hone that I have ever used.

Take Care,
Richard

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Jimmy you can over hone in any stone .it will just take more or less time.
of course honer should know what he is doing too.
Lets say to overhone blade on escher you will need to make perfect strokes without pressure for at least an hour very slowly.
You can get there eventually. is this a good idea? of course not just crazy people same as me will do it for test purposes.
4 razors don't have exact same angles-- bevel and edge angle i mean. some has been used more or less.

Don't get me wrong Sham, I'm not knocking what you're doing. I just don't quite understand it. It reminds me of the guys when I first came around who talked about polishing the edge until there were absolutely no scratches. I read that and figured that must be what I'm supposed to do.

Then I got razors honed by Lynn, Glen, Josh Earl, Joe Chandler, Livi ..... and they were shave ready to the max and had a scratch pattern. A pronounced scratch pattern. So I figured out that, for me, getting the razor sharp was the paramount objective and that putting a scratch free bevel on display, as it were, was not something to be concerned with.

Of course we want an edge that will stand up to use after honing but differing bevel angles is something that has never been something I've examined. Interesting topic. Thanks for bringing it up. As far as being crazy .... Sham I've always thought you and I are the only sane people on SRP and sometimes I'm not sure about you !

Don't own Japanese stones, but do have a thought. Maybe the Japanese stones require more pressure during honing to maintain contact with both the bevel and edge during the honing stroke. Could it be this simple? Probably not.

Originally Posted by Croaker

Don't own Japanese stones, but do have a thought. Maybe the Japanese stones require more pressure during honing to maintain contact with both the bevel and edge during the honing stroke. Could it be this simple? Probably not.

no they do not require to do anything different than other finishers.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Don't get me wrong Sham, I'm not knocking what you're doing. I just don't quite understand it. It reminds me of the guys when I first came around who talked about polishing the edge until there were absolutely no scratches. I read that and figured that must be what I'm supposed to do.

Then I got razors honed by Lynn, Glen, Josh Earl, Joe Chandler, Livi ..... and they were shave ready to the max and had a scratch pattern. A pronounced scratch pattern. So I figured out that, for me, getting the razor sharp was the paramount objective and that putting a scratch free bevel on display, as it were, was not something to be concerned with.

Of course we want an edge that will stand up to use after honing but differing bevel angles is something that has never been something I've examined. Interesting topic. Thanks for bringing it up. As far as being crazy .... Sham I've always thought you and I are the only sane people on SRP and sometimes I'm not sure about you !

Jimmy i always thought angle of the blade depends spine and edge.
it is mostly will stay same as you hone spine and edge wears same time.
Now i have nothing against it.
This is the easiest way to explain.
lets say you hone and finish edge without taping.
stones are X and next is Y.
you check the edge you see X edge is how it should be but
then you check Y and see edge looks like you have used tape when you hone this blade in fact you are not.
now i am thinking why in the world Y stone should act this way?
sharpness of the both blades almost same.
This is new to me and i don't understand so far.
i am thinking this may be the big reason some Japanese stones are so expensive.
why type edge they produce.

Originally Posted by pinklather

It seems this would produce one end of the bevel being fully polished, while the other end would only have reflective polish at the trailing edge of the bevel. If this is the case, reversing the direction/orientation of the stone - now placing the faster cutting section on the part of the blade not yet fully polished - should quickly cut the unground trailing edge until it lays flat, lowering the leading edge into contact w/ the stone. Not all stones can be reversed for direction, due to unfinished side edges getting in the way. If the stone permits stroking from either side - this test might confirm the hypothesis.

Assuming that's the only factor in play... but I would bet a different steel would hone differently.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

you check the edge you see X edge is how it should be but
then you check Y and see edge looks like you have used tape when you hone this blade in fact you are not.
now i am thinking why in the world Y stone should act this way?
sharpness of the both blades almost same.
.

Maybe this is to do with individual stones hardness. I know you are talking about finishers but imagine honing a bevel on a DMT1200, even flat bevel both sides. Then use soft King 1200 waterstone. King edge would become slightly convex. With polishers & light pressure convexing may only show as a slight microbevel assuming Y stone is slightly softer than X

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Maybe this is to do with individual stones hardness. I know you are talking about finishers but imagine honing a bevel on a DMT1200, even flat bevel both sides. Then use soft King 1200 waterstone. King edge would become slightly convex. With polishers & light pressure convexing may only show as a slight microbevel assuming Y stone is slightly softer than X

Softness of the stone could be factor too.it does make sense to me.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Maybe this is to do with individual stones hardness. I know you are talking about finishers but imagine honing a bevel on a DMT1200, even flat bevel both sides. Then use soft King 1200 waterstone. King edge would become slightly convex. With polishers & light pressure convexing may only show as a slight microbevel assuming Y stone is slightly softer than X

I think you might be on the right track here based on what I've read about the honorable Nakayama. I've read that if it is, let's say for arguments sake, a 30.000 grit equivalent, as you hone the grit that is released from the binder is ground even finer.

So your 30,000 equivalent is becoming 50 or 60,000 as the honing progresses. I'm not speaking from experience here, only repeating my understanding of what I've read in the past and postulating that this could be the source of the mystery of the bevel angles Sham presented.

I think this is why So only likes to sell what he considers hard stones to razor folks ie to keep the bevels as true as possible.