Thread: Matching hones to razors. Certain brands work better with certain hones?

I'm curious about the answers here; would they be different if posted out in the more general honing section? I've made notes over the years about general consensus: e.g., cotis for Sheffield, super-high grits only for New York and TI steels, etc. Why isn't anyone going out on those limbs here?

Originally Posted by roughkype

I'm curious about the answers here; would they be different if posted out in the more general honing section? I've made notes over the years about general consensus: e.g., cotis for Sheffield, super-high grits only for New York and TI steels, etc. Why isn't anyone going out on those limbs here?

All I've got now is a chosera 1k, a pair of single grit 4k and 8k nortons, and assorted eschers and coticules. I hone any and all razors with that combination with satisfactory results. YMMV.

I use a Naniwa 2000 for bevel setting, a couple of coticules for honing the blades, and a Naniwa 12000 for final finishing or touch-ups. I have older Sheffields (near wedge or 1/4 hollows) and this combination of stones works great for a comfortable and easy shave.

I've used many different stones on many different razors and for the avg user all seem to do just fine. You will find variances in both stones and razors that don't fit what happened last time, nature of the beast.

However I have come across a few issues that for me always stand true...

King 6k stones don't like stainless steel at all, gunk up really fast.

Shapton Glass stones lean toward stainless and gunk up faster with carbon blades

A few others flip flop around but that is a long battle and most people don't sharpen enough to notice these differences.

The above tests that I did at home and at gatherings was using a combination of razors and kitchen knives of various makes and steels. How any one stone acts verses any one knife or razor can be interpreted differently than how I did, again nature of the beast.

How will your stones handle a life of only doing razors will differ from my stones because of my use with all kinds of knives. A 3" razor sharpened with just the weight of the blade vs a 300mm gyuto with AS steel (that eats stones of all kinds) wears a stone very differently. So any comparisons would have to be tested in alot more controlled circumstances.

Trust me I have been looking for this answer for as long as I have been sharpening knives and everytime I think I have an angle on things something comes along and undoes my past work.

All I can say is that hard steel eats soft stones, and hard stones can trash your edge in a single miss step... After that it's all up in the air

Imo, it's a bunch of hooey.

It has some foundation in truth of course. Older Sheffields tend to be a couple of points softer on the rockewell scale than solingen razors. this also makes sheffields more accomodating to hand sanding than solingen razors.

And this also has an effect on honing. Coticules tend to be slower than synthetics. That is why it is probable that a sheffield razor will react quicker to a coticule than a solingen razor. By the same token, the harder edge will have better edge retention, and thus benefits more from high grit finishers, be they natural or synthetic.

There is no magic to it, and generally speaking you can hone all razors with all hones. The difference in hardness just causes the razors to abrade at a different speed, and retain thinner edges.

Originally Posted by roughkype

I'm curious about the answers here; would they be different if posted out in the more general honing section? I've made notes over the years about general consensus: e.g., cotis for Sheffield, super-high grits only for New York and TI steels, etc. Why isn't anyone going out on those limbs here?

Because there are only a handful of honers who hone so many razors that they can tell the difference. You have to hone a lot, and get very proficient with the hones to get a razor to its maximum EVERY TIME. If you are not absolutely sure that you got everything out of a razor you honed, than you cannot tell if the problem was you, the hone, or the razor. We have only a few people who hone that much, that they are absolutely sure in their skills, and their hones, so the only variable is the razor. The average straight razor user (99% of all people), with 20-200 razors more likely won't notice a difference between the max sharpness of different steels. And the truth is, if I can trust the more experienced members, than the differences are so subtle, that they really don't matter that much. Sheffields have the oldest and maybe the "worst" quality steel of all, did you ever see someone who said that his Greaves or Joseph Rodgers didn't shave well?

Originally Posted by jeness

Because there are only a handful of honers who hone so many razors that they can tell the difference. You have to hone a lot, and get very proficient with the hones to get a razor to its maximum EVERY TIME.

Yes and no. I wouldn't confuse a professional (one that earns money for his trade) with an expert. While they may be one in the same, not all experts are professionals and not all professionals are experts. I'm willing to bet that the so-called "experts" don't hit a homerun every time.

I have noticed in quite of few threads that the standard response has become to send the razor out to a professional before looking at any other variables. Yes, it's nice to eliminate the sharpness variable, but not all "shave-ready" razors are shave ready, or comfortable, for an individual.

IMO, the secrets to honing are not held by a mere few. These proclaimed "experts" are quicker to identify the problem blade or bring it into submission, but honing can be mastered to one's satisfaction by understanding the physics and techniques needed to achieve a sharp and comfortable blade.

Sorry, no offense to various honing "experts" on the board.

Originally Posted by jerrybyers

Yes and no. I wouldn't confuse a professional (one that earns money for his trade) with an expert. While they may be one in the same, not all experts are professionals and not all professionals are experts. I'm willing to bet that the so-called "experts" don't hit a homerun every time.

I have noticed in quite of few threads that the standard response has become to send the razor out to a professional before looking at any other variables. Yes, it's nice to eliminate the sharpness variable, but not all "shave-ready" razors are shave ready, or comfortable, for an individual.

IMO, the secrets to honing are not held by a mere few. These proclaimed "experts" are quicker to identify the problem blade or bring it into submission, but honing can be mastered to one's satisfaction by understanding the physics and techniques needed to achieve a sharp and comfortable blade.

Sorry, no offense to various honing "experts" on the board.

I agree with your comments around pros and experts. I am one of the ones that suggest a professional honing to noobs. It is the best way to word the statement and the best chance for success for noobs. The choice of the perm professional reduces the chance of a person sending their razor to a member that is learning honing or over confident of their results. We have had a few of them as members here. Each professional honed edge will differ from person to person and sometimes from the same person but most will give a good shave. If someone wants the best shave possible for themselves they need to learn to hone their own blades.

As for matching the hone to the razor, yes it does make a difference. Some hones more than others. Also, most of the hones recommended on SRP will get the job done and done right. Matching the hone to a razor is an advanced topic and really doesn't add any value at the basic honing level or at a low volume level. If you are only honing a few razors a week or a few a year use the hone you have at hand that meets the general requirements. It may take a little longer but it will give a shave ready edge if used properly. Doing a bunch of razors a day or an hour, matching the hone to the steel will be worth the cost in hones. I don't have a shop full of hone at each grit, I have two or three and they get the job done. On the same note, I pay close attention to all feedback I get while honing and I can see, hear and feel when one hone works better on a razor than another and have learned the signs to know when to switch to another hone. Some people enjoy the journey, some just want to get to the destination. I enjoy the journey but if it is taking too long I start looking for the destination and start focusing on what will get me there.

In the end, remember to have fun with your straight razor sporting and everything will come into perspective.

Shave ready, and max sharpness are two different things. Anyone can get a razor shave ready, and only a "few" of them can attain the maximum that a razor is capable of. You don't have to hone for others to attain this, but you have to hone a lot. I hone a lot, and I have honed maybe more than 200 razors until now, and I wouldn't say that I can get out the max sharpness of any of them. At this time, anyone could tell me that x hone is better for y brand, I couldn't tell the difference. If a finisher is not chipping an edge, or doing any other damage to it, than the limiting factor in the final edge will be my skill, not the finisher used, or the steel of that particular razor.

I get good results with the Y/G Escher and Nakayama on most razors. One exception: the TI Silverwing. I cannot get it to pass the hanging hair test with the Escher nor the Nakayama. I finish it on a purple-coloured anonymous hone, followed by a piece of wood painted with CBN spray.