at the beginning of this thread we started with 50 strokes on water(with the LM) to make sure everyones honing from bevel set to the 8k was up to snuff. coming off the 8k 20 to 35 was great 50 for me was a over kill coming from a 8k to the LM on lite slurry to water 15 to 20 strokes was the spot for me .