Thread: Ode to the X-Pattern stroke

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Sorry for the incomplete thought up there something my Sis figured was of importance interrupted me

I wanted to also point out that there are some draw backs to not learning to use the X pattern properly..

1. Many finishers would be of no use to you

2. You would have to develop another pattern to keep the Frowns away

3. Barber's Hones, and smaller bouts would be of no use to you

4. You would have to be extra careful about keeping your hones lapped

5. Honing gymnastics would be extra hard for you so difficult blades would be harder


Learning the proper use of the X stroke teaches you how to adapt and overcome many honing challenges. It is the basic stroke that all others have evovled from.. ie: It is pretty easy for us that have learned it to say "I don't really use a basic X stroke any longer" but as the "learning stroke I still think it is essential...


There that was the rest of my thoughts, please note I said Proper use of the X

I would agree with all your points, especially with regard to the flexibility in handling blade variations. The X-stroke would be advantageous in many of the circumstances that you mention, and worthy of mastery. But as you point out, ceteris parabis (all things being equal), a three-inch wide, properly lapped hone will do a fine job without using a single X-stroke.

On the first comment I would respecfully request some clarification. A wide enough finisher works beautifully with a 30 degree angled heel forward stroke. I am not sure what, if any, advantage the X-stroke necessarily provides on a finishing stone. Did you mean to say on a narrow finisher (<2.5in)? Perhaps you can explain this point to me.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Sorry for the incomplete thought up there something my Sis figured was of importance interrupted me

I wanted to also point out that there are some draw backs to not learning to use the X pattern properly..

1. Many finishers would be of no use to you

2. You would have to develop another pattern to keep the Frowns away

3. Barber's Hones, and smaller bouts would be of no use to you

4. You would have to be extra careful about keeping your hones lapped

5. Honing gymnastics would be extra hard for you so difficult blades would be harder
There that was the rest of my thoughts, please note I said Proper use of the X

In others words "Why kick the sleeping dog"

The only 3 inch wide hone I have is a dmt 325 so I won't be ditching the x-stroke any time soon.

Originally Posted by Gammaray

On the first comment I would respecfully request some clarification. A wide enough finisher works beautifully with a 30 degree angled heel forward stroke. I am not sure what, if any, advantage the X-stroke necessarily provides on a finishing stone. Did you mean to say on a narrow finisher (<2.5in)? Perhaps you can explain this point to me.

No need for explination you got it

I think my main point is that it is very easy for experienced honers that have mastered the X pattern and have evolved it into other things to say "Yeah I barely use it any longer" then it would be to skip it's use all together..

Which is exactly why I moved this discussion into the Advanced section, as it is a discussion among people that have an option of using all the different patterns because we have learned them and how to use them

I hope that is a bit more clear...

The purpose of this thread was to gather some impressions on how the new EXTRA wide water stones and leather strops have perhaps diminished the real utility of the X-stroke. This early sample of respondents would say that the X-stroke still has merit under some circumstances even on the wider stones, and that it is still mandatory for narrower stones. It would appear that among the experienced users the X-stroke may no longer be mandatory on the wider media. Additional comments or impressions are welcome. Thanks for the feedback.

I'd suggest that x strokes are still mandatory ON SOME BLADES

Wide hones are nice, but some blades have special needs and a wider stone offers no advantage...in fact, many prefer narrower hones for some special cases.

One notable example is a warped blade.

Originally Posted by unit

I'd suggest that x strokes are still mandatory ON SOME BLADES

Wide hones are nice, but some blades have special needs and a wider stone offers no advantage...in fact, many prefer narrower hones for some special cases.

One notable example is a warped blade.

The narrow VS wide hones has been brought up many times, some even cutting the hone in half for special blades. The outcome was that a narrow hone doesnt give you any advantages on any blade.

Originally Posted by Gammaray

Most of us started with the X-pattern stroke. Up until a few months ago I was still using it. Back then our hones were at best two inches wide and our strops about the same. The X-pattern stroke was necessary to cover then entire edge of a SR. Today, we have 3" plus hones and strops that easily cover the entire edge. I am increasingly convinced, especially for newbies, that the X-pattern stroke on these wider surfaces is unnecessary and potentially injurious to the edge. Perhaps it is time to retire the X-pattern stroke for the following reasons.

1. A combination of edge forward, heel forward, and toe forward strokes can cover the entire edge without ever drawing it over the edge of the hone during an X-pattern stroke.

2. Keeping the entire edge on the stone avoids variations in pressure that can occur during the X-pattern stroke.

3. The X-pattern stroke favors the middle and toe of the edge at the expense of the heel, which inevitable spends less time in contact with the hone. Keeping the entire edge on the hone surface provides more even coverage.

4. With such wide hones and strops the original usefulness of this stroke is no longer required.

OK, now you can let me have it with your own opinions. Has anyone else out there elected, as I have, to retire the X-stroke pattern?

Really ?

This week I have learned that, "stropping is basicly overrated & in most cases unneccessary."
This week I have learned that, "the X-stroke is outdated, unnecessary (since we all now have access to large hones don't we/) & that it needs to be retired.

Really ?

I am now convinced that someone will wake up next week & teach me that straight razors are a thing of the past, obsolete, & just plain dangerous and I will be forced to ask myself, "Why straight razors, when there are all these wonderfull, modern & safe BIC disposables to be had?"

Really ?

Really ?

I've learned that I can't treat every razor the same way. Whether new or old, razors all contact the hone in slightly different ways.

Recently I honed one razor with near perfect geometry. It honed up very easily with just a very slight x stroke while almost going straight across. It's a great shaving razor now.

The next razor I honed just wouldn't make full contact on the hone. I tried a very dramatic x stroke and I got 95% of the blade, with just the very toe not contacting. The I added a slight roll at the end of the stroke and made full contact. I will shave test this blade tomorrow. Straight up and down strokes would not have worked on this razor.

So one just has to adapt to each razor. Sometimes an x stroke is called for regardless of the width of the hone.

Michael

With a razor properly honed we learn to shave with point leading. The angle of the teeth set in the blade is such that they approach and cut hair at an even larger angle.

Take the same blade and shave with the heal leading(not recomended)

The angle the teeth are set is in my opinion all part of a smooth shave. YMMV