Thread: Friable grit stones

Not to complicate things but the steel particles in the worked slurry might also add to the polishing effect or "multitude of cutting points Glen mentioned.

So has anyone looked at the effect of friable metallic particulates and their impact on friable grit natural stones?

Presumably the steel particles enhance the breakdown of the stone's grit, and the stone's grit continues to work on the steel particles (as well as the edge of the razor). I think we have found a mechanical solution to taking the limit as n goes to 1/infinity!!!

James.

James , you might have to draw up a graph but the Japanese have used a mixture called Nugui to cosmetically finish swords for centuries. It is basically powdered Jnat & powdered iron oxide but I don't reckon it'll be the next slurry of the week, it's mixed with clove oil.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

James , you might have to draw up a graph but the Japanese have used a mixture called Nugui to cosmetically finish swords for centuries. It is basically powdered Jnat & powdered iron oxide but I don't reckon it'll be the next slurry of the week, it's mixed with clove oil.

My understanding is that many a Sheffield Razor was polished much the same way using a Sea Lion Leather covered wheel, metal dust and some type of grease


Back on point though, there very well could be some polishing going on from the steel particulate in the slurry, in fact perhaps it is that steel in there reacting with the stone's grit particles that helps break it down more and more

I dont want to complicate matters with another concept, but I'm going for it anyways...

What if the amount of water and slurry affect how it cuts?

For example, if I spent 5 minutes making a huge amount of slurry, I'm going to need alot of water to dilute it enough to use it, chances are the blade will undercut the water as soon as it has a hint of a bevel edge... sort of like a false positive of sharpness.

but if i made a small amount of slurry and diluted it by a finger drop at a time the blade will sit on top using the waters surface tension and only undercut when the razor is sharp enough.

This method would also only cut one edge of the razor. what i mean is that I dont know what the overflowing slurry is doing to the edge not being honed... for all I know it could be dulling it for instance.

It also gives a more greater mirrored surface on the bevel, hinting that its cutting finer.

regards Alex

EDIT: I've just realised... this method for me is how jnats should be honed on. I say that because the best edges I've ever had from my ozuku kiita have been from the jnat mud or slurry thats been dried out enough to turn into a thin layer of sludge that creates such a fine edge, much the same as glycerine is used on coticules...? I'll be bashing the rocks tomorrow to test this out... I cant resist a good puzzle

Originally Posted by gssixgun

My understanding is that many a Sheffield Razor was polished much the same way using a Sea Lion Leather covered wheel, metal dust and some type of grease

The legendary "Black Polish"

I've just finished honing two razors with small amounts of water to make a sort of glycerin slurry and the results were very good.

I took the coticule edge as far as I would on a jnat, using a ground in slurry described in an earlier post and taking it down to a thin layer of very thin slurry which feels like glycerin when honed on. The edge was a definite 10-11k edge, smooth and cut through my 3 day stubble with little effort after only face lathering with mwf and no beard prep. I dont know if diluting more would soften the edge or add sharpness but I'll have some fun with that later :-D

The jnat edge was superb I honed the same way as I did on my coticule apart from not grinding the slurry down at all - because there was so little water it took about 15 seconds to make a slurry and I was off honing. I shaved without stropping the razor after the jnat and it was pretty damn easy to shave with. Again I could have got more sharpness if I refreshed a bit more with the slurry stone and played around with other factors but, I was purely seeing if this 'Gelatinous slurry' theory worked and it seems to produce very good edges. Not even that, the edges were very similiar from both stones with two different razors and grinds.

The edge from the jnat was slightly better at a 12k level. not bad for two 10 minute honings from bevel to finishing, I'll have to try this with my bbw and see how the edge is from that, its my favourite stone so it should be a cracker!

In conclusion, using alot of water when slurry is involved is a no no IME, a cushion of thin slurry seems to give better edges and more consistency than water logging your rock and rubbing a couple millimetres of the top of it to make slurry. Its what glen has said previously about using a very thin layer of water when finishing giving better edges except applying it to the whole honing process.

regards Alex

I understand and highly respect the traditional ways to obtain a smooth and keen edge on a J-Natural. Obtaining different grits by breaking down, grinding......etc. will and does lead to edges that are second to none. I only use one stone honing essentially picking my grits while I climb my way through the progression by using Nagura. I have always had trouble getting slurry to behave the exact way that I would like at the final stages of finishing so.....I cheated and went to the store and bought my finishing slurry.

When I am finished with the edge off my J-Nat I use CBN 0.125 or 0.10 micron spray diluted with water as my finishing slurry. I find this method works on all types of carbon steel razors including some very highly tempered razors. I can not speak of stainless since of the twenty or so razors that I have none are stainless.

I know method is unconventional but perhaps it will others that have a hard time with finishing slurry.




Later,
Richard

So I tried Alex's method of using the slurry stone to break down the Coticule slurry instead of using a razor..
It works quite well and it is really quite cool when the slurry changes to a smooth talc feel, I used this as a finishing slurry all the way out and ended up with a very nice haze finish with just the very edge touching on a mirror..
Very nice system I like it

Thanks Glen, The consistency for me with this method has been the biggest plus. the thing with the talc slurry is that it can be really thick but still set a bevel.

You can literally make slurry from one drop of water on the stone until dry then add one to two drops of water and set a bevel and hone from a tiny amount of this slurry.

I've found once the slurry is diluted down towards the finishing stages there's too much water so every so often after adding water I'll shake it off and run my finger down the stone leaving a film of water and use the residue slury on the razor to keep sharpening.

the residue slurry on the razor is a very good way to tweak the last 1% IME.

I'll try make a video when I get Gary's coticule, I've realised there's alot of very subtle techniques I use, that pictures would do a better job of explaining in this method

happy honing
Alex