Thread: Huge influx of Japanese razors?

Originally Posted by WW243

I'm pretty sure I bought a false Western Kamisori with a Japanese grind intended for export to the West.

Well, Bill! It finally got exported to the West!

Originally Posted by Steve56

Here's a H. Diamond Extra Steel Western Kamisori. It, like most of the Western kamisoris I have, may not be what they seem to be! Take a look at the first attached image. Looks asymmetric huh? Now look at the second image, which is the same blade looking more head-on with a piece of painter's tape obscuring the spines. Look more symmetric? It does to me.

I started thinking about it, and what I think they really did was to lop part of the spine off on one side to make it look asymmetric but it really isn't. It's just slick marketing maybe. The last image is one I made a while back to illustrate the principle and show that the angles were the same on both sides to limits of my ability to measure.

Interesting!

Cheers, Steve

Sorry but that neither sounds or looks right to me so I did some quick calculations and the angle from the spot where the spine contacts the hone relative to the bevel is not in fact the same on both sides.

Here are my calculations. Keep in mind that my measurements are based on the proportions of your sketch so the angles might not be accurate for the actual razor.

From the three points of contact with the hone you can divide the razor into two right triangles.
Here's my sketch of your sketch with measurements(PS, my printer didn't think there were enough lines so it added an extra one for every scan):



To make it easier to follow I drew separate right triangles with the same proportions as the sides of your razor when I calculated the angles.

We'll call the hone contact spot's angle relative to the bevel on the omote side, "β".
β is 13,0°.

Same thing is done for the ura side but this time the angle is called "α".
α is 18,4°.

Sketches and calculations:
Omote

Ura


I cropped the pictures to make it easier to read since I found it a bit hard to read(and I've got good eyes) the downside is that they are now in different scales but that doesn't really matter since the proportions are still the same and the actual measurements are written down on them

Here is a clearer shot of a single bevel Japanese western style. This happens to be a Tosho.

I've honed quite a few Western style Kamisori grind blades, they are true Kamisori grinds but they are finished to a higher level and the side (A) with the 18.4 degrees is the side with a set and defined bevel but purely by the nature of how you hone these razors side (B) with 13 degree will also have a very small bevel barely noticeable though, here's one of my western style Kamisori razors.

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

...

Yes, as I understand it, the people who (used to?, has it changed with newer smiths?) make kamisoris were not very big on buffing.

I always get a bit jealous when I see your pictures(partly because of your razors and partly because of your photography skills).

I like looking at the engineering type drawings of Steve56 and Baxxer. I don't understand either (especially the weird math sign). My instinct was that Steve56's razor was a Kamisori sitting on top of a wedge....so to recover some self respect.....I'll just stare at the shiny object in the celticcrusader's photo.

A ruler can make things look very neat and tidy.
The Alpha and Beta signs are just what I named the angles, I could just as well have called them 'A and B' or 'X and Y' but I find that it's easier to keep track of multiple signs/variables if I use the Greek alphabet for angles and the Latin alphabet for measurements(it's also how I was taught in school so I do it partly out of habit) and using Sine, cosine or tangent(depending on the case) for finding an angle is very simple if you have a couple rules memorized and a calculator.

Originally Posted by WW243

....I'll just stare at the shiny object in the celticcrusader's photo.

I'm way ahead of you there.

I also forgot to add that you should always tape Kamisori style razors as you see the side with the bevel as a protruding angle that's part of the grind that gives you the correct angle while honing if this is not covered it will wear rather quickly and dramatically alter the size of the bevel from a neat uniformed size to a rather large and undesirable in my view.

Hold on.....there is something dark about this pic.....THERE IS A HAND IN THE REFLECTION IN THE BLADE!

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

I've honed quite a few Western style Kamisori grind blades, they are true Kamisori grinds but they are finished to a higher level and the side (A) with the 18.4 degrees is the side with a set and defined bevel but purely by the nature of how you hone these razors side (B) with 13 degree will also have a very small bevel barely noticeable though, here's one of my western style Kamisori razors.