Thread: What is "overhoning"? and...Dremel cleaning...and finding my path as a newbie

OK, so if I am understanding this correctly:

Overhoning
is really uneven or irregular honing. You could even say incorrect honing. Spine is not even due to bad angle on hone.
Questions:
1) Can this be corrected?
2) If I hone correctly, this will never happen to my razor?

Correcting this problem seems unlikely, unless one either grinds down spine to make even, removing potentially a LOT of material, which would change angle of bevel, or building up the low spots, which seems either very advanced or completely undoable (and I'm leaning towards undoable).

Dremel
Some like the Dremel, some don't. It seems to me that doing damage with a Dremel would likely come from one or more of the following:
1) rubbing compound too course
2) buffing wheel rubbing in wrong direction
3) buffing wheel held in one place too long
4) buffing wheel used beyond its useful life

Wrong direction would be similar to shaving WTG, XTG, or ATG, or sanding wood in similar manner in relation to grain. Metal does not have "grain" but may have marks from grinding or honing. Buffing or grinding in same direction seems like that would be wise. Or not? Mirror finish seems like that would be less likely with correct grit compound.

Did I miss other problems? If one were to avoid the above 4 problems (or more, if identified) then one could avoid damage to the razor with a Dremel or other buffing tool?

I mean, even toothpaste is a mild abrasive, and can be used to fix small scratches in some surfaces. Maas, mag wheel polish, and other rubbing compounds can sometimes come in course or fine, very similar to paste for a strop. Use the appropriate grit for the appropriate job. Milder abrasive with more elbow grease is sometimes the better answer.

And, it sounds like, experience is the best teacher.

Am I on the right track?

MarkC

Over honing is different from hone wear. Over honing is honing until the edge gets very fragile and fall apart. Hone wear is from using to coarse of a hone and to much pressure, many used razors have this as they didn't tape the spines like many of us do when honing.

Here's a good link with pictures that show hone wear

http://straightrazorpalace.com/begin...hone-wear.html

The issues with the dremel boil down to two situations. 1) leaving it in one place to long and messing up the heat treatment and 2) breaking off a chunk of the razor. The secong can happen in a myriad of ways.

Originally Posted by rodb

Over honing is different from hone wear. Over honing is honing until the edge gets very fragile and fall apart. Hone wear is from using to coarse of a hone and to much pressure, many used razors have this as they didn't tape the spines like many of us do when honing.

Here's a good link with pictures that show hone wear

http://straightrazorpalace.com/begin...hone-wear.html

The fragility occurs from too much honing on a higher grit stone.

Also from low grit aggressive hones that leave deep striations (scratches) that can cause a saw tooth crumbly edge. I've seen more of those than from high grit stones actually

Originally Posted by dinnermint

The fragility occurs from too much honing on a higher grit stone.

So the seller actually used the wrong term, as said, Over-honing is a term use to describe an edge that has been honed too thin.

What he is describing is an excessively worn spine. It can be compensated, by the use of tape, building up the removed steel back to where it was originally. Tape will also protect the spine from any wear.

It can never be corrected, once steel removed from the spine, can never be replaced. Yes, some do advise grinding the spine flat, but then some folks advise honing on clay bricks and coffee cups.

I doubt that anyone, that has ever used a Dremel, has NOT had it get away from them. The bit or wheel grabs an edge and is spinning so fast, bad things can happen quickly. And the wheels are not larger enough to conform to a flat or slightly concave surface and polish it smoothly without a lot of experience.

No doubt some nice work has been done with one, (I own several) but just realize the danger to the workpiece and yourself going in.

I use Dremel’s for many things, but polishing blades, is not one of them, I use them always at the lowest speed setting and with a flex shaft, it will give you much more control for about $10-15.

Restoring razors is inherently dangerous, using any motor driven tool and applying it to a Straight Razor is extremely dangerous.

Hand sanding will produce a mirror finish, using the proper progression of wet & dry grits. But even then, you can cut yourself.

If you just, stop and think about what you are about to do, and you get that tingly feeling in the back of your neck… don’t do it…

OK, I'm pretty clear on uneven hone wear. Thanks.

Overhoning on the edge of the blade...any photos of that sort of problem?

Any photos of Dremel damage, or other types of damage from sanding or buffing wrong?

And, Euclid440, I am always amazed at the number of people who DO NOT experience a tingly feeling on the back of their neck, they proceed and do damage to themselves and others. Not necessarily with a SR, could be another situation in life. But intuition works fine on me, or as Tom Selleck on Magnum, PI used to say..."that little voice inside my head." I am so glad I have that voice, too. At least most of the time...or more often than not!

Actually Over-honing is or was pretty rare, until recently.

A few years ago there was a rash of folks claiming over honing, but really it was more probable, that the bevels were never fully set, a common problem.

It occurs when the edge gets too thin from too many laps on an aggressive finish stone, like the SG20, Lapping film or some Barber Hones. The edge cannot hold up and begins to chip or can be harsh. The harshness comes from the blade being so sharp it is exfoliating skin, you don’t feel it during the shave but you will after. Much like what most feel from the first shave of a Feather blade.

With the popularity of the SG20 in the last couple years, it can happen easily. That stone is an aggressive, fine grit stone that can cause Micro chipping on the edge. Not many razors can handle an excessive number of laps on it, maybe 20-30 laps, for most razors. Where, you could do laps for hours on a coticule or thuriegen and still shave comfortably off the edge.

Lapping film is the same, 1um about 16K, is plenty keen for most, but go to .3um/ about 60k and few razors can handle it and begin to micro-chip or the edge is uncomfortable to shave with.

Sometimes the edge is fine for the first couple shaves and after stropping it begins to chip, from flexing during stropping. With film the grit is so even and aggressive, and the stria are so uniform, even though the grits are not exceptionally high, that uniformness at the edge can thin the edge to the point it will cause steel to crumble or micro-chip.

If you look at the edge off of a high grit natural stone, an Ark or Jnat, the finish / stria pattern is a hazy / kazumi finish made of random high grit that produces a keen and comfortable edge on most razors even hard and difficult to hone razors. And with these stones it is hard to over-hone.

The fix is simple, if you suspect Over-honing or just have a Micro-chipped edge, simply joint the edge, on the finish stone and re-set the bevel, on the finish stone, it will not take much to bring the bevels to meeting. Then stop and strop the razor and shave.

An Over-honed edge will just look like a Micro-chipped edge.

Originally Posted by MarkC

Any photos of Dremel damage, or other types of damage from sanding or buffing wrong?

Here ya go, had a dremel get away when trying to get the super mirror finish. An experiment gone wrong on a $5 razor, I wanted those rust pits to really POP.

Before:


After:

Yep They Really Did Pop """ Right Off On The Toe""""""""" Better Luck Next Time!!!!!!!!TY