Thread: Venting About Auctions. Feel free to join me.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

As far as shipping goes .... is it a 'free' flat rate box furnished by the USPS or did the shipper spend $ on a box and packing material ? Is the shipper's time and gasoline worth anything ? When I sell on ebay or elsewhere I keep the shipping charges as close to what it actually costs for postage as I can. OTOH, I take the above points into consideration when I am paying for an item I buy on ebay or wherever.

It's hard to really pick a side here. I see what you mean but I also have a similar opinion as Glen's. I might pay $5 for the actual shipping cost but I do have other expenses such as actually going to the post office to get the box, then to drop it off, materials to secure the razor inside of box, tape, labor, and paper/ink to print the label.

Now I can understand an eBay powerseller or someone whose actual main source of income comes from shipping goods to others taking this into account. For me this isn't the case and I consider myself to be a more than honest seller on eBay and I just couldn't bring myself to charge people for every little thing I have to do. I'm trying to get rid of the item, not push people away with high fees.

As always, just an opinion, not meant to offend anyone. Just wanted some other perspectives on the points I've raised!

If it is eBay make an inquiry with eBay, BEFORE,
you give feedback.

If they charge you for xyz shipping and
send it cheaper that is a problem. eBay does
keep a score card that is more than just the
feedback scores you can see with ease.

In another thread some seller went all postal
on some bad feedback. Always try to get resolution
in a diplomatic way before making a public tangle
of things. Work with eBay communication tools
because they keep a log.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Eboy just reflects what goes on in the world. Many outfits gain huge profits from large shipping fees and many stores charge huge mark-ups on items which can be found way less at other stores. Some people would rather go into Nordstroms and pay a bundle for an item and be treated like a king rather than go into a discount store and pay way less but get no service and have to mingle with the common folk.

In the end you bid what you want to get an item. It may be a fair price, you may get a deal or you may spend way too much.

It's your decision.

The difference between what some stores do, and charging substantially more than actual packaging and shipping costs on eBay, is that eBay sellers sign an undertaking not to do it, as a condition of using the service.

Originally Posted by Caledonian

The difference between what some stores do, and charging substantially more than actual packaging and shipping costs on eBay, is that eBay sellers sign an undertaking not to do it, as a condition of using the service.

Right, but that's something between ebay and the seller. Of course, any buyer is free to shop anywhere they want and avoid any seller they don't want to do business with, but if you click on the 'report item' button and ebay doesn't bother to enforce its own policy, you ask yourself how much is that policy worth.

In any case 15% overhead on the actual shipping cost is just the cut ebay and paypal collect. The rest I think is mostly philosophical question - you can hide the shipping in the item cost, or charge it separately. It appears that if one wants to take advantage of the buyer's psychology the first option is the way to go. May not be too different from advertising various 'discounts'.

Originally Posted by ats200

It's hard to really pick a side here. I see what you mean but I also have a similar opinion as Glen's. I might pay $5 for the actual shipping cost but I do have other expenses such as actually going to the post office to get the box, then to drop it off, materials to secure the razor inside of box, tape, labor, and paper/ink to print the label.

Now I can understand an eBay powerseller or someone whose actual main source of income comes from shipping goods to others taking this into account. For me this isn't the case and I consider myself to be a more than honest seller on eBay and I just couldn't bring myself to charge people for every little thing I have to do. I'm trying to get rid of the item, not push people away with high fees.

As always, just an opinion, not meant to offend anyone. Just wanted some other perspectives on the points I've raised!

eBay's policies are quite plain. They have nothing against people making a reasonable handling charge, on top of what is actually spent on postage and packaging materials, and neither should we. But when what we see on receiving the package, and checking the calculator on www.usps.com , shows them to be making more on "handling" than on trading profit on the item, sides aren't at all hard to pick. In particular, eBay give gasoline and time spend in the post office as things for which it is not permissible to charge.

Yes, you should always try to obtain resolution diplomatically, when resolution can be made. For an honest misunderstanding it usually can, or a simple explanation may suffice. But if part of your grievance is finding that you have engaged in business with a fraudster, how is negotiation going to turn back the clock and uinfraudster him?

We've heard the matter of overseas shipping mentioned, and the example of $15 for a razor should be quite acceptable. But there is a trap many buyers outside the US, and sellers inside it, may not fully understand. It applies mostly to larger or smaller items than a straight razor. For the seller to be protected if an item is lost or damaged, or alleged to be lost or damaged, he has to show online verifiable tracking to the destination. The US suffers by comparison with many other countries, for this means Priority, which can be much more expensive than First Class International.

On the one hand, the seller isn't getting this money. On the other, there isn't some bottomless pit rapidly filling up with packages, in the postal system. Postal loss isn't that common, and compares well with the stock shrinkage for which bricks and mortar retail businesses have to allow. Insistance on Priority is very much like telling the buyer that he has to pay for the most expensive insurance in the world, against fraud by himself.

Originally Posted by gugi

Right, but that's something between ebay and the seller. Of course, any buyer is free to shop anywhere they want and avoid any seller they don't want to do business with, but if you click on the 'report item' button and ebay doesn't bother to enforce its own policy, you ask yourself how much is that policy worth.

In any case 15% overhead on the actual shipping cost is just the cut ebay and paypal collect. The rest I think is mostly philosophical question - you can hide the shipping in the item cost, or charge it separately. It appears that if one wants to take advantage of the buyer's psychology the first option is the way to go. May not be too different from advertising various 'discounts'.

It's between the person who pays the money and the person who gets it, and someone taking money for which he does nothing is not a philosophical concept. Paying fees to eBay and Paypal is just an overhead the seller has signed up to allow, and which the buyer is already paying, as part of the selling price, since the seller is allowed to recoup them in no other way. Set one sum against another, when the buyer is paying both of them? Not to him, you can't.

Last time I checked the buyer is free to pick any number he likes and then click the 'place bid' button, or not. And as long as all fees are disclosed at this point, he's on the hook to keep what he agreed to.

I've read the section about 'excessive shipping fees' that I agreed to before I was able to list things on ebay. It's policy against something that's not well defined, so it's entirely up to the ebay's discretion whether any specific case violates it or not. So the buyer has absolutely no involvement whatsoever in this particular part.

Originally Posted by gugi

Last time I checked the buyer is free to pick any number he likes and then click the 'place bid' button, or not. And as long as all fees are disclosed at this point, he's on the hook to keep what he agreed to.

I've read the section about 'excessive shipping fees' that I agreed to before I was able to list things on ebay. It's policy against something that's not well defined, so it's entirely up to the ebay's discretion whether any specific case violates it or not. So the buyer has absolutely no involvement whatsoever in this particular part.

Yeah I have to agree. It's hard to argue with a shipping cost that you've agreed to pay for and that is clearly shown on the face of the auction. This is why I just avoid the high-shipping auctions now so I don't get frustrated or angry when it arrives.

Originally Posted by ats200

Yeah I have to agree. It's hard to argue with a shipping cost that you've agreed to pay for and that is clearly shown on the face of the auction. This is why I just avoid the high-shipping auctions now so I don't get frustrated or angry when it arrives.

That is right, for there is rarely any purpose in arguing with it. But if eBay were unlikely to take action over a complaint, feedback and low DSR ratings remain, and are intended to cover areas of discontent which aren't even policy violations at all. In fact the suggestion that eBay doesn't care about excessive shipping is more than we know. Very few violations will cause a member to be sanctioned in one. Far more common is for there to be a numerical threshold, with warnings preceding action if a number of complaints is reached.

eBay already disable the Shipping and Handling DSR star rating if free shipping is used, and there would be no difficulty at all about doing the same if the S&H specified in the auction is paid. But they don't. That strikes me as better than conjecture on what they want done.

The shipping and handling costs link in the Selling Practices policy (Selling practices policy) authorises no charges but those for expenses paid, i.e. none for the seller's time and trouble. Still, I've already said that most of us would consider a small amount added as a handling charge to be no violation. But when profit on S&H amounts to more than trading profit, it is. There is also no doubt about what actually claiming entitlement to be paid for gasoline and time in the post office is.

I don't care how a seller structures the price and shipping.

Code:

var pay = what HNSB is willing to pay
var price = price of item
var ship = shipping cost of item

If
{ price+ship <= pay}
Then
HNSB happily makes the purchase
Else
HNSB does not buy