Was it out of line.......

Hey guys so i wanted to get some feed back about something to see if it was out of line......I won this item HERE now this is not about the crazy awesome deal i got my issue is this. The seller clearly has stated $8 and that is what i was charged.......yes i agree a bit high but i usually wait to see packing/actual cost before saying it was ridiculous.....well i got the item yesterday and it was packed in a Small THIN bubble envelope (FWIW it was holiday decorated with penguins on it) and the razor inside was wrapped in a small 5"x5" piece of THIN bubble wrap and the ACTUAL cos on the package $2.51....so i left feed back accordingly...

"Great seller!! Fast but OVER CHARGED FOR SHIPPING $8 paid for $2.51 actual cost!"

also based on the star ratting of the 5 categories this seller has just over 4stars on the shipping option and almost all 5 in the others.

so was it out of line for me to leave feedback in that nature???

oh i also received this message from the seller this morning........

"hey jerk for what u gotshipping and that is about average that razor at you cant say much about

"

i wrote back but will wait to see if you guys agree that $8 is high for shipping and if my feedback was out of line.....

thanks

You should probably remember that it is shipping and handling. Not only did he pay to ship it, but he also bought the padded envelope and who knows how far he had to drive to get to a post office to mail it. So IMO, $8 is not completely unreasonable for shipping, especially since you agreed to pay for it.

Many use the entire cost of shipping for shipping charges,, ie: time and gas to go to the PO

The actual cost of those evelopes is in my neck of the woods .75 - $1.25 which is why I went to boxes from U-line

I charge $6 for CONUS insured shipping for 1-3 razors unless the insurance is really high it will actually cost me about $5 for the shipping plus the cost of the box...

Now if I had to pay for my car and gas I might add $1 or $2 but right now I am lucky and drive for free at my real job so I don't charge the extra... I also save and re-use every piece of packing material I can lay my hands on, which I get quite a bit here at work, so I don't charge for that either, but if somebody doesn't have access to that like I do, you would have to buy it....

Now at $2.51 it seems he just mailed it First class no Insurance... add the cost of the envelope, and the packaging, let's say he is at $4 plus getting it to the PO

Is the shipping high or low??? I am not saying, I am just giving you some numbers as I know them

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Originally Posted by Theseus

You should probably remember that it is shipping and handling. Not only did he pay to ship it, but he also bought the padded envelope and who knows how far he had to drive to get to a post office to mail it. So IMO, $8 is not completely unreasonable for shipping, especially since you agreed to pay for it.

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Oh i realize there is handling involved as well and im not debating that i agreed to pay the $8......it is more the fact that a) there was NO insurance and b) that a flat rate box is around $5 and yes the auction stated Economy Shipping and a flat rate box is Priority. it is more the issue of the fact that they felt the need to send a rude email in the face of what was POSITIVE feed back and just stating the facts.....had it been in a box with insurance there would have been no issue and wouldn't have batted an eye at the $8 and even in a box i probably wouldn't have taken issue. like i said i paid it no problem it was just jarring to get that email this morning.

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Originally Posted by BenjamanBarker

im not debating that i agreed to pay the $8...... yes the auction stated Economy Shipping and a flat rate box is Priority.

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IMHO , you knowingly agreed to pay $8 for economy shipping . You got economy shipping . You have nothing to complain about . You were wrong to bust this sellers chops . I do agree with you , that the seller was wrong to give you a rude reply . They should have been civil in their reply . Being rude just makes them look like an idiot .

6 of this, half a dozen of that. For 8 dollars, I expect at the very least a good wrapping of bubbles. They skimped, on a delicate item. Instead of saying "they overcharged me" I would have opted for " could have been better packaged"

Yeah, I tend to side with the seller in most instances. This is not exception. You bid on it knowing it was gonna be that price. Even if he had a brother at the post office, and it didn't cost him a dime to ship it, you still agreed to the charge. Doesn't make much sense to agree to something, then leave a negative feedback about it. In addition, if you truly felt duped somehow, you should have contacted the seller first. Maybe he'd have cut you a break. You've effectively damaged the mans reputation, because you didn't agree with what you agreed to...

I have dealt on ebay for a long time as both a seller and a buyer. I would consider it bad form to hit the seller with a nasty comment without first contacting them and letting them know what your concerns are. In most cases they go out of their way to make things right, mainly since a negative comment (and especially one so pointed) cannot be corrected and will definitely lower future sales.

I've started only to leave feedback if the seller makes an attempt to neatly package the item. If it comes only mailed in brown grocery store bag paper as a mailer and padded with 2 layers of newspaper I don't leave feedback no matter how nice the razor is.
(best one so far was a paper butter box with paper towel, wrapped I brown paper).

Your links do not work, they just take me to the e-bay home page.
On the shipping if the seller listed the price @ $8 so be it, but you can dispute the price with customer service and let him explain to them how come he charged so much for first class shipping.
In some cases for me the seller would on their own refund the difference from the actual shipping amount and what they charged me, but I have not seen many of those.

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Originally Posted by BenjamanBarker

Oh i realize there is handling involved as well and im not debating that i agreed to pay the $8......it is more the fact that a) there was NO insurance and b) that a flat rate box is around $5 and yes the auction stated Economy Shipping and a flat rate box is Priority. it is more the issue of the fact that they felt the need to send a rude email in the face of what was POSITIVE feed back and just stating the facts.....had it been in a box with insurance there would have been no issue and wouldn't have batted an eye at the $8 and even in a box i probably wouldn't have taken issue. like i said i paid it no problem it was just jarring to get that email this morning.

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What did you actually expect him to do? You made an agreement which he lived up to. Then you gave him MISLEADING feedback, not very nice IMHO.

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Originally Posted by dave5225

IMHO , you knowingly agreed to pay $8 for economy shipping . You got economy shipping . You have nothing to complain about . You were wrong to bust this sellers chops . I do agree with you , that the seller was wrong to give you a rude reply . They should have been civil in their reply . Being rude just makes them look like an idiot .

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I would have been a bit angry also and may have responded the same way. Sending a nasty gram to you was not really a nice thing to do, but trashing the guys feedback was not the right thing to do either. I never pay more than 5 bucks for US shipping. If it is seller wants more, I don't buy.

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Originally Posted by Magpie

6 of this, half a dozen of that. For 8 dollars, I expect at the very least a good wrapping of bubbles. They skimped, on a delicate item. Instead of saying "they overcharged me" I would have opted for " could have been better packaged"

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If it arrived in the condition as described in the auction, it was packaged properly.

Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Mvcrash

What did you actually expect him to do? You made an agreement which he lived up to. Then you gave him MISLEADING feedback, not very nice IMHO.

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I guess I don't see how he lived up to it. Like I said I didn't have a problem paying it per the agreement I guess I just expected since I was paying $8 I would get $8 worth of good packing no matter what the actual cost of shipping it was. Or at least $5 worth of packing NOT a $1 store envelope and some left over bubble wrap.

You asked for our opinions. IMHO you were way out of line. :nono:

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Originally Posted by BenjamanBarker

I guess I don't see how he lived up to it. Like I said I didn't have a problem paying it per the agreement I guess I just expected since I was paying $8 I would get $8 worth of good packing no matter what the actual cost of shipping it was. Or at least $5 worth of packing NOT a $1 store envelope and some left over bubble wrap.

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You don't really know what it cost him to send your package. As referred to previously, he may drive a car that gets 10 miles per gallon and lives 5 miles from a post office. That would cost him a few bucks also.

I don't like over paying for shipping....matter of fact, I won't. But if I decide to buy from a vendor and knowingly agree to the shipping price and the price of the item and it arrives safely, I really have no beef.

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Originally Posted by HarleyFXST

You asked for our opinions. IMHO you were way out of line. :nono:

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I agree.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Many use the entire cost of shipping for shipping charges,, ie: time and gas to go to the PO

The actual cost of those evelopes is in my neck of the woods .75 - $1.25 which is why I went to boxes from U-line

I charge $6 for CONUS insured shipping for 1-3 razors unless the insurance is really high it will actually cost me about $5 for the shipping plus the cost of the box...

Now if I had to pay for my car and gas I might add $1 or $2 but right now I am lucky and drive for free at my real job so I don't charge the extra... I also save and re-use every piece of packing material I can lay my hands on, which I get quite a bit here at work, so I don't charge for that either, but if somebody doesn't have access to that like I do, you would have to buy it....

Now at $2.51 it seems he just mailed it First class no Insurance... add the cost of the envelope, and the packaging, let's say he is at $4 plus getting it to the PO

Is the shipping high or low??? I am not saying, I am just giving you some numbers as I know them

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I’ve done business with Glen (GSSIXGUN) many times! His pricing for shipping is right up front for you to see! His packaging is always top notch!

I’m not really familiar with doing business with EBay and the likes (I’m not a Dinosaur, but a definitely a Mastodon with this technological terror)!

Anyway:

Not long ago, I went to buy a straight razor related item from a very well known online dealer: (this particular dealer sells not only from themselves but for others). When I went to checkout I found that the shipping was more than twice what I wanted to purchase (two 2oz items)!! Before I ordered, I contacted the seller asking why the shipping could possibly be that high! They responded that ‘they’ didn’t establish the shipping charge, their ‘partner’ did!!

It took awhile but I finally figured out how to find the original seller and purchased directly from them! Shipping was include in the price/same price as at their (Partner’s site)!

Just my little input! I hope I’m not off subject!

Now , and then , I sell razors in the classifieds . I include the cost of the shipping in the price of the razor . I only ship priority mail , in a flat rate box , insured , with signature delivery confirmation . I do this so I know that the razor was actually delivered to the person it was sent to , in the same condition it was in when it left my hands . This costs me around $9 or more (depending on the cost of the insurance) . Add the pay pal fee , and the cost of a gallon of gasoline , and were talking in the neighborhood of $15 .

I live overseas from most shaving and coffee vendors. I ordered some stuff from one coffee vendor, and the price came to about $3-4 above actual costs. I figure that covered the box, the styrofoam peanuts, etc. I don't see that as unreasonable. I ordered some shaving stuff from a vendor heavily associated with this site, and I think I was charged about $14 above actual shipping costs. In that second case, there were boxes within boxes and a customs form. Still, I felt overcharged on that second one.

Shipping is a way some people make a few extra bucks. As a customer, I don't like it. I won't ever buy again from that second vendor I mentioned. It's something all vendors should be aware of before deciding to do it. I just think it's best to be as honest and open as possible and try for repeat business, rather than going for a quick extra buck and risk alienating a customer and garnering some negative comments.

When the auction states 'Economy Shipping' there is no reason to expect getting priority, or next day, or express, even if the shipping charges are $100. As far as insurance goes the seller isn't liable to provide that, it is for his protection and not that of the buyer, as ebay has the seller liable to deliver the item in the promised state. How the seller choses to do that or how to split the cost between item and shipping is really up to them, at the best it is between them and ebay, but the buyer should stay out of it.
Ebay provides and option for detailed feedback, and that's where the buyer can reflect if the shipping charges were too high.

It's like buying anything else on the internet, usually there are shipping costs, and in most cases they are higher than the cost of the postage itself. Even when sellers offer free shipping, the buyer still pays for it, it's just hidden.

So I don't see why people get their underwear bunched up over such a common practice when the end result is insignificant anyways.

As far as the rude email from the seller, you received it AFTER you left the feedback. To me it makes a bit of a difference if the seller is being rude and unprofessional over the normal course of a transaction, or just afterwards when they are provoked.

BTW you placed two bids on that item, i.e. you were willing to pay more. Nobody else bid on the razor, so you paid the minimum the seller was willing to sell it for, including the shipping. Which means you got a deal (paid less than what you were willing), while the seller didn't (got the minimum he wanted).

In my opinion, other than the obvious problem of complaining about a shipping method/price agreed to by the contract of purchase, the OP included an identifying Ebay name, in effect bashing him beyond his feedback on Ebay, extending it to this forum. Thinking before typing is always advisable. We all regret things we do, but it has not been mentioned whether or not the entire transaction/product was satisfactory, so we shall assume it was. I feel a 5 buck problem is not worth discussing. Again, My Opinion Get it on...........Tom

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Originally Posted by gugi

When the auction states 'Economy Shipping' there is no reason to expect getting priority, or next day, or express, even if the shipping charges are $100.....

BTW you placed two bids on that item, i.e. you were willing to pay more. Nobody else bid on the razor, so you paid the minimum the seller was willing to sell it for, including the shipping. Which means you got a deal (paid less than what you were willing), while the seller didn't (got the minimum he wanted).

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I didn't expect priority or anything but economy shipping. I was using the flat rate box as an example and knew it would brought up that those are priorty mail but I expected economy shipping.

As for the 2 bids yes there were,1 normal self entered bid and one a snipe I set up after placing that bid since I had to start my show (work in theatre) and wasn't able to watch the auction end. So yes I did get a deal I was surprised there were no other bids.

also the feedback that I left was positive i didn't choose neutral or negative (as I DO think that would be uncalled for) I just chose to write what I was disappointed in. I also guess I use the feedback system different when deciding to purchase from a seller. But I do very much appreciate your guys feedback and opinions on this here!!!

I've been in a similar situation, as a buyer, and messaged the seller after the auction asking if they would please ship the razor in a box, not a padded envelope, and how much for priority. In many cases they agreed to ship priority at no extra cost. In some cases they did add shipping charges. In most cases if I asked for the box rather than the envelope I got the box, regardless of the speed of shipping. I have also bought items where I thought the shipping cost was out of line. I gave them the appropriate star rating within the ebay feedback system but didn't comment in the text portion. If I know what the shipping is before hand and bid anyhow I can't bellyache.

Atta boy, Ben! We all know you from this forum. A good dude. If you ask, don't be suprised what you hear. A learning curve is always present when dealing with human beings. I suggest you remove the sellers name from the OP and chalk it up to experience. You might also talk with the seller and revise feedback as you see fit. If you got a good deal, you might want to leave the door open. One day, you will want to sell that razor. Put yourself in his shoes. Merry Christmas to all.....and to all, a good nite!

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Atta boy, Ben! We all know you from this forum. A good dude. If you ask, don't be suprised what you hear. A learning curve is always present when dealing with human beings. I suggest you remove the sellers name from the OP and chalk it up to experience. You might also talk with the seller and revise feedback as you see fit. If you got a good deal, you might want to leave the door open. One day, you will want to sell that razor. Put yourself in his shoes. Merry Christmas to all.....and to all, a good nite!

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Thanks!! Sellers name removed an I actually did modify the feedback right before seeing your post!!

Yes, you're out of line. If you had paid for expedited shipping, but got regular shipping, you would have been justified, but you got what you paid for. As it stands, you agreed to the $8.00 charge and got what you paid for. If I was the seller, I'd be royally ticked off at your feedback. Do the right thing, go correct it and send an apology to the seller.

On a broad look at this situation... In my experience, whenever you ask the question... "Was it out of line to **insert action here**", the answer is probably yes.

I'm the first to admit I've made my share of mistakes... and I'm usually the first one to look back and say... damn, I shouldn't have done that.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Atta boy, Ben! We all know you from this forum. A good dude. If you ask, don't be suprised what you hear. A learning curve is always present when dealing with human beings. I suggest you remove the sellers name from the OP and chalk it up to experience. You might also talk with the seller and revise feedback as you see fit. If you got a good deal, you might want to leave the door open. One day, you will want to sell that razor. Put yourself in his shoes. Merry Christmas to all.....and to all, a good nite!

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I agree!!!!

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Originally Posted by BenjamanBarker

Thanks!! Sellers name removed an I actually did modify the feedback right before seeing your post!!

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Good Stuff!!!!, This once again indicates the type of gentleman who roam the SRP.

This is an interesting thread - I used to be in the business of distributing supplies to Veterinarians. Charging for shipping and how you display this in the invoice is tricky business. Let's face it, it costs money to do business, including freight. Most people, especially cheap veterinarians(I don't really mean that) will throw a fit if they knew they were paying a lot for shipping. So, we just add those costs to the selling price of the item and not charge him for freight. Simple, - and everyone is happy.

Some people ya just can't be honest with...

Steve

Imo, yes, you were out of line.

The amount on the envelope is only the shipping amount.
Add the cost of the envelope, which could be a dollar.
Then add the cost of gas for driving to the post office. Depends on distance, which could be a dollar.
That is 4.51 already.

And you will admit that you can't count shipping cost to the cent if you have to state the cost up front.
After all, 2.51 is only because you are at your location. For another person it could have been more.
then add in the fact that paypal has to get a percentage as well, and 8 dollars seems like a totally reasonable price.

And even ignoring that the 8$ has a perfectly reasonable explanation...it was stated up front!
You knew what it was going to be and you agreed.
The fact that the envelope listed only 2.51 is irrelevant, even my explanation would not cover the 8$ (which I think it will).

Before I bid on an item I check the shipping costs and take them into account before I enter my maximum bid.

I have two thoughts on this. First it's his item and as long as he is up front about it when you bid you agree to his terms. If not you don't bid. Second, people seem to expect an individual selling something to have cut rate shipping costs when many commercial outfits heavily pad their shipping to turn it into a money making department for them and people don't seem to mind that.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I have two thoughts on this. First it's his item and as long as he is up front about it when you bid you agree to his terms. If not you don't bid. Second, people seem to expect an individual selling something to have cut rate shipping costs when many commercial outfits heavily pad their shipping to turn it into a money making department for them and people don't seem to mind that.

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Very true! I probably should have requested it in a box and admit that was my bad because it was more the jank envelop, and not the price, that peeved me for what was a clearly stated shipping fee.

I will say it is interesting you bring up the "commercial outfits heavily pad their shipping to turn it into a money making department for them and people don't seem to mind that" since, and yes I KNOW this is slightly off topic, the class action lawsuit TicketMaster just lost was due to them inflating fees, both shipping and service fees, and turning a profit on them. So the general public may be starting to change their tune as they become more aware if this practice.

But thank you all for your views and opinions!!! :-)

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Originally Posted by CatSaddler

If you read eBay's rules for sellers, They are not permitted to charge for gas to the post office or for any eBay or PayPal fees. Shipping fees should be for actual shipping and handling fees.

I had to point this out to a seller that his $15 shipping fee was crazy for a razor. He said it was to make sure he made enough on the sale. After I pointed out the eBay rules, he did refund the difference. Some just aren't aware of the rules and we buyers need to point this out to them.

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So, this is after you bought the item, agreeing on shipping charges? At this point, you negotiated lesser shipping? Wow! He did not have to refund anything, You agreed by buying! That seller is a prince! You did not have to buy if you did not like the terms. Just saying........

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

So, this is after you bought the item, agreeing on shipping charges? At this point, you negotiated lesser shipping? Wow! He did not have to refund anything, You agreed by buying! That seller is a prince! You did not have to buy if you did not like the terms. Just saying........

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You make a good point here, sharptonn. However, a seller should know the rules and not take advantage of those who may not. He probably didn't need to make good on the overcharging that the buyer agreed to, but the seller made the ethically correct choice of correcting his error, whether the buyer had agreed to the original charge or not.

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Originally Posted by markdfhr

You make a good point here, sharptonn. However, a seller should know the rules and not take advantage of those who may not. He probably didn't need to make good on the overcharging that the buyer agreed to, but the seller made the ethically correct choice of correcting his error, whether the buyer had agreed to the original charge or not.

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Agreed also. It makes you wonder if folks make snap decisions without looking around a bit. Also, I feel some sellers try to see what they can get away with on shipping. If someone complains, they get reasonable! No harm no foul? I, personally would not bid on a razor if it was double to ship, out of principle. Let someone else pay the premium if they wish! IMO, shipping negotiations should be done before buying/bidding.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

IMO, shipping negotiations should be done before buying/bidding.

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I agree. It's better to conclude negotiations before the sale. It keeps things much less complicated and is the way things should be.

Personally, I find that there are times when I've been treated less than honorably, such is the tuition that we must pay to learn valuable lessons. When I was younger I was really hot for this MR2 (MK1, the boxy style) for sale used. My father tried to talk me out of it. He saw some issues, like how it had been repainted and how the battery was in a non-standard place. He advised me not to put down a deposit.

But I did. In the meantime I had my mother check the title (this was in the days before the internet was available for such things) and she found out it was salvaged. I immediately realized these people were trying to defraud me and I stopped payment on the check. These people had cashed the check immediately, so I lost my earnest money.

These people were crooks (unlike the person overcharging for shipping, who most likely had no real ill intent to defraud anyone). I paid tuition for a life lesson and am much the wiser for it.

An earlier post stated, if the shipping cost is too high, buy elsewhere.....

I could not agree more with that sentiment. I look at all the costs and then decide if the item is worth having. If not, I wait for one that does. I buy a lot on eBay. If the item is rare and I know I won't see another for a long while, I get it and figure shipping is part of the cost for its scarcity. OTOH, if it is relatively common I will wait until I find one cheaper. With Scottish lineage, I am genetically predisposed towards cheap bastardness.

As a long time eBay seller I can also say that the seller in this instance was pretty dumb. Had the OP received the package without the postage cost indicated, I'd bet there would have been no issue. Since eBay allows you to print out the shipping and not show the actual postage costs, the seller put the banana peel on the stairs himself then tripped over it. Sometimes I get more than the actual shipping cost and sometimes less. I know I don't make any profit over the long haul on shipping. However, anything I send has an OCD level of packing care applied and I've never heard a peep on my shipping charges.