Thread: Beginner: Jnat Hones on eBay?

Originally Posted by zib

These old natural japanese stones are mined out, meaning, what's out there, is out there. Japanese stones are also the most counterfited stones on the market due to their high price, and how easy it is to fake a stamp. Unless your a Japanese Geologist, there's no way you'll know.

I think only the Oohira & a few other mines are still operational. All the others are bulldozed shut, I think.

THere are a few shady high-volume eBay sellers (I won't mention the name, but I will say that if you see a Nakayama for $50 on eBay, watch out; there is no such thing as a cheap, quality razor Jnat) out there who will actually paint the skin on the back (1 way you can sometimes guess at the mine, although it really takes an expert to tell) to make it look like say, a Nakayama. Then they (I think) will lacquer over it so the paint doesn't rub off & call it a Nakayama when in fact it was scrap originally.

Something like 90% of stone quarried in the mines was rejected & left behind--these same shady types will pick over this stuff, grind it into the shape of a stone & call it Nakayama or Okudo or Oozuku or whatever & sell it cheap on eBay. Sometimes you get lucky & it works on razors, but a lot of the times, it's a paperweight.

One thing to watch is any name brand stone going for a very low price, like a full size Nakayama for $60 or an Okudo suita for the same; the latter starts @ $500 according to So Yamashita, for a quality piece. Good Nakayamas start @ probably around 300ish for a razor sized stone. You don't have to spend anywhere near 2500 for a really good finisher, but they will set you back a few hundred always, for a good stone.

There was a great post here about a year ago where someone detailed even more of what these shysters get up to & how to avoid them, but I can't find it, I'm afraid.

As far as trusted sellers, here are a few that I'm personally aware of, in no particular order:

*Alex @ the Japan Blade--member here based in Sonoma
*Maksim @ Japanese Natural Stones--also a member here based in Denmark
*So Yamashita @ Japan Tool--not a member here but many have bought from him & are very happy
*JimR--member here & runs the blog "Eastern Smooth". Recently translated "Honing Razors & Kamisori" into English.

All 4 sellers are trustworthy, sell good stones that are what they say they are & will never steer you wrong.

If you consider buying an expensive Japanese hone get one from a reputable vendor. Prices have skyrocketed the last couple of years. There's always people trying to make a quick buck. No 2 Nakayamas are the same. I got mine from So Yamashita and can only recommend him.

Once you reach a certain quality level none of us is going to see a performance difference. Maybe a master sword maker might but us no. Most of these stones you see for astronomical prices are collector grade stones and these folks would never dream of ever using the stone. They are more display and investment purposes.

Originally Posted by israfelli

1. A shapton glass 16k?
2. A superstone 12k?
3. Just a norton 8k?
4. A Chinese12k?
5. A coticule?
6. Make my own balsa strop with Cro paste or diamond paste?
7. Use my rough leather strop with paste?
8. Some combination of the above.

From what I hear the CH12K's might be hit or miss, might be vendor related too. I am no pro, but my CH12K does good. You could also check out barber hones. I dont think mine does quite as good as the CH12K, but the size, speed and ease of use are pretty big bonuses. slap some lather & less than 10 passes and the edge is refreshed for a while. Again I am no honing pro, nor do I have a face that is conducive to properly testing these things out.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Once you reach a certain quality level none of us is going to see a performance difference. Maybe a master sword maker might but us no. Most of these stones you see for astronomical prices are collector grade stones and these folks would never dream of ever using the stone. They are more display and investment purposes.

Absolutely ! Stones are collected & viewed the same as "art' swords especially by the Japanese. They are not for using.

Here's a $70 dollar ozuka asagi that I just picked up Ozuku Asagi (Koppa)
Other than the sites that PA23-250 recommends I'd add aframestokyo.com to the list. You don't have too spend to much. And you can get the small nagura stones to rub them on from JimR or from a site he recommends ?????????????????????????????. Keep the English simple and you'll spend half the $300.

Originally Posted by Casus

Here's a $70 dollar ozuka asagi that I just picked up Ozuku Asagi (Koppa)
Other than the sites that PA23-250 recommends I'd add aframestokyo.com to the list. You don't have too spend to much. And you can get the small nagura stones to rub them on from JimR or from a site he recommends ?????????????????????????????. Keep the English simple and you'll spend half the $300.

Remember you get what you pay for.There is a reason why some stones are 100 bucks and some are 300 bucks for the same size,nd not counting fancy looks etc that ups the price unnecessary.

Well it isn't a big stone. If it was a Nakayama I'm pretty sure it would fetch for $200 easy. Since the OP is a newbie, I would recommend a hard stone plus nagura and not go to crazy on names. I don't believe there is a reason why some stones are cheaper if it comes from a respectable site. Here is another stone Shoubudani type 100 under $100 that is great for sharpening razors. If you still believe that your still not getting a quality stone then we agree to disagree. I think its alot safer to buy a $100 or less stone from a dealer who knows there stuff then risk paying a similar price on ebay.

Originally Posted by Casus

Since the OP is a newbie, I would recommend a hard stone plus nagura

I wouldn't. Hard stone = Hard to use.
Best advice has already been given . Start with synthetics till the hands get educated.