Thread: test results - positive or negative

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

In a bizarre twist of non-intuitive processes the smoothing action will also increase the sharpness of the razor. Try 40 passes on 8k, 20 using some light pressure and 20 using only the wieght of the blade and see if that helps.

You can always send it to me if you want . . . but I think your getting close.

After that reconsider your stroke angle when shaving and your strokes quality on the hone and return to some 4K. Make sure its not overhoned ofcourse too.

Have fun!

Alan:

Thanks for the suggestion. After I lap the hone, I will follow it.

As to the shaving stroke angle. I'm experimenting with, and seem to like, a short (2-3 inch) diagonal stroke with the tip leading. Is this not something I should persue? the angle I'm not sure of is the standard 30 degrees. It seems in many videos and pictures that I've seen of barbers shaving customers, that the blade is almost flat on the customers skin. This doesn't make since given that 30 degrees is almost univerally recommended.

Also, I'm a little lost on the last part here. "Return for some 4K" If I did the 40 passes on the 8K and it was sufficient, why return to the 4k?

Originally Posted by scarface

Actually, Steve, on one of the earlier HHT threads, I described my results as similar to yours, and I was informed that the POP, POP, POP when the hairs were cut was indicative of a wire edge formed on an overhoned razor. If I recall correctly, I was informed that the hair should just fall over, and if it POPS, then ideally the razor should be backhoned one or two passes, then honed regularly one or two passes, and try the HHT again.

-whatever

-Lou

Hmm

Scarface, thanks for the information. I'm getting a little confused now, but that's only due to lack of experience I think

Only return to the 4K in the event you are unhappy with the single results of 8K alone.

A lower shaving angle is often recommend, especially for course beards. I use a low angle first pass and high angle second pass. Its your face.

As far as leading with the tip and scything those are often helpful. Just be careful not to over scyth, you'll cut yourself if your not careful. And also, never, ever begin a cutting stroke on a facial protrusion with a scything motion. Don't begin on your cheek bone or directly on your chin. These little tidbits are available in the barbers manuals.

I use a slight scything motion on my second pass. I learned not to mix scything with a facial protrusion . . . the hard way.

The razor should be sharp enough to shave effortlessly without a lot of scything action so don't over depend on the ability to cut via "slicing" motions. But it is a good stroke, used often with straights.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Only return to the 4K in the event you are unhappy with the single results of 8K alone.

A lower shaving angle is often recommend, especially for course beards. I use a low angle first pass and high angle second pass. Its your face.

As far as leading with the tip and scything those are often helpful. Just be careful not to over scyth, you'll cut yourself if your not careful. And also, never, ever begin a cutting stroke on a facial protrusion with a scything motion. Don't begin on your cheek bone or directly on your chin. These little tidbits are available in the barbers manuals.

I use a slight scything motion on my second pass. I learned not to mix scything with a facial protrusion . . . the hard way.

Thanks Alan, I think we take a similiar approach to cutting strokes. I never start on a protrusion (like my chin) and on those, I use a flatter angle than on the neck and sides of my face.

As to the barber manuals, I have one from 1950 I use as a constant reference though it doesn't always answer my questions.

Thanks again!!

Steve,

There's more than one way to hone. Some guys use pyramids, alternating back and forth between the 4K and 8K all the way to the end.

Alan gets good results by getting the razor sharp on the 4K and then sticking with the 8K for the rest of the process.

With the pyramids you get a mix of scratches, big and small, that some guys find to work well.

Alan's edges are just smooooooth.

I've used both approaches, and I still haven't decided which I like better.

Different members have different approaches, and you'll get conflicting advice at times. Try 'em all.

Josh

Well, I followed Alan's advice and did probably a few more than 40 strokes on the 8k before I felt that the thumbnail test was passable. then I stropped it for 50 strokes or so (sorry, I got mesmerized by the rasping sound and the drag feeling).

Could easily shave my arms (that test is no longer available to me, at least until more hair grows back)

Did the thumbpad test that honedright described in another thread and the edge kept biting into my thumbpad. Wednesday morning shave test.

If I'm learning properly, I should get a nice comfortable shave but we'll see. I have a suspicion that I'm "right there" if not completely shave-ready yet.

I lapped my 8k for good measure this time too. It wasn't too far off to begin with but I'll take any edge I can get right now

I think I messed thing up.

I saw the link to the paper towel test and tried it with my razor. Nothing doing. So, I honed and honed and honed and tried the PPT again. I never could get it to pass and I can't tell now if my razor is sharp, overhoned, dull, ready for a little lateral action on my throat

I used my microscope to look at the edge and it really looks like I have one side with a nice, defined bevel and one side with a "what's a bevel" look to it.

I tested the razor using the thumbnail test so much tonight that I have no sensation left. I started using my fingernails to test and it felt OK so I stropped and the thumbpad test seems OK as well, I certainly get a sticky feeling as I try to perform the test.

One thing is for sure. I think I'm getting a little too complicated with things. Time to go back to barber basics: thumbnail, thumbpad and shave

I guess the morning's shave will tell.

Well, I just had to try something else. I went back to the strop and stropped for an addtional 50-60 passes. I went real slow and looked at what I was doing and sure enough, there is one spot where I tend to lift the tip of the edge off the leather. I adjusted my arm angle and the pressure I place on the shank using my thumb and that seemed to correct the issue. I have a 3" wide strop so I tried a few different motions. First the X-pattern, that's OK but I have trouble with it. Then I tried keeping the whole blade on the strop and using an angle (say 30 degrees approx.) each way. It ends up making a sort of arc in that at the start of the stroke, the blade is angled and at the end the blade is almost straight across the strop.

Anywho, after about 30 strokes, I looked at the edge with a microscope and noticed that the edge, while pretty straight, had some bright spots on the bevel. I encountered this before so I took some toilet paper and wiped the edge (carefully). Sure enough, the spots were no longer on the bevel. I think this is some microscopic skin that gets cut off during the thumbpad test.

About 30 more strokes and the edge was looking real nice. No chips, no dips, no strange things sticking off of it. It kind of compared to the picture in the library that showed what a properly stropped edge looked like. Not quite as nice as the picture, but real close.

Well, the thumbpad test was even better so I'm now excited for the test shave in the a.m.


If this worked and restored what I think I messed up trying to get it to pass the paper towel test, I will have learned a lesson. Namely hone, and if it will be a time between the honing and the test shave. Walk away from the razor until shave time.

Think I'll go to bed and saw some Z's.

Steve , are you hearing a uniform rasping sound through out the entire length of each stroke?

Justin

We really need to see a test shave and its results. It doesn't need to be your whole face. You have a lot of testing going on.

In order to simplify I would stop testing all the time. I'm not really sure you know what your looking for in all these tests.

If in fact you have a good bevel on one side and little bevel on the other you need to assess why your applying unequal pressure while honing. Change the stone orientation to prevent this if needed.

If it doesn't shave well this would be a big contributor.

You can set the bevel with the 4k and move to the 8K and smooth everything out on the bevel and get a great shave; without performing a single test. Use your microscope to get your bevel even and smooth and drop the thumbnail test all together. Use your 8K with for 40 passes as I suggested, 20 light pressure, 20 no pressure (even better is to lighten the pressure as you go). Do this and you can effectively eliminate the thumbpad test and the PPT all together and go right to shaving.

After the 8k use the strop to draw out and smooth the edge.

Almost half the battle of honing is knowing when to stop! The other half is learning a perfect stroke.