Thread: Newbie honing Q's, red & green paste on paddle strop

Hi --

I'm new to SR shaving here, and I was hoping I could get answers to a few questions about honing from the honemeisters here --

First off, I've got a new DOVO 5/8 Carbon razor, and while I have successfully accomplished one "didn't touch the Mach III even once" SR shave, I was a bit rough afterwards, with my cheek and neck both irritated -- enough so that I had to fall back to the Mach III the next day to let my razor burn recover.

While I'm sure my shaving technique is still in need of improvement, I think sharpness is my first-order issue to resolve.

I have purchased and watched Lynn's *excellent* DVD on the subject, and I can't say enough how useful the information was. I do have a few remaining questions, though --

First, I bought a Norton 4K/8K in a kit from ClassicShaving.com, which also comes with a paddle strop and red and green paste. I used the pyramid technique on the 4K/8K, first practicing on an old rusty DOVO 6/8 I ruined years ago (in the 80's, during my first ill-fated attempt to SR shave) by leaving it damp, using a kitchen knife sharpener on, etc. Yes, I was very dumb, etc., but now I have a practice razor for my technique, and who knows -- perhaps I'll be able to clean it up and restore an edge someday... but for now my attention is focused on the new razor, as I'm eager to throw away all the disposables...

I was unclear on how to do the HHT, I was holding the hair between my thumb and finger, descending vertically, and then using the straight like a scythe in wheat, with a moderately rapid chopping motion, with a careful grip and cutting away from my body of course. The straight would cut a hair in this method.

However, I recently saw the HHT animation AVI file, that shows the test performed with the blade cutting-edge upwards, and the hair held horizontally and lowered across the blade somewhat slowly.

When I do that, the hair just deflects and slides off the side of the razor. Clearly, I'm not 'there' yet in sharpness.

So, first question to the honemeisters -- should I be able to pass a HHT off the 4K/8K pyramid, or is it more typical to pass that test after a final polishing? IOW, can a HHT be a "test" point for when to move on to final polishing, or to keep practicing on the waterstones?

Second, and on to red and green pastes -- I've not seen it stated quite explicitly just when one uses the red and green pastes, and in what progression? I made the assumption that the two pastes should be used in lieu of a 12K polishing waterstone, or Coticule, for a final finish after the 4K/8K pyramid?

And again, I haven't seen this explicitly stated, but implied in several places, that the green paste is more coarse than the red paste. Using that assumption, I did an X-pattern on the paddle strop, about 30 strokes on the green, then wash the razor carefully, and then about 30 strokes on the red paste.

From there, I stropped the razor about 50 strokes on a russian leather and shaved. I was elated that I was able to carefully take all the hair off my showered and brush-lathered face, with no major nicks, although a few red micro-spots here and there, but later in the day I noticed far too much irritation to repeat the shave every day. I'm determined to get this, however.

I have ordered several of the pre-shave oils listed around and several after-shaves for experiment, and also ordered a kitiyama stone (about half the price of the coticule) after enough delicate negotiation with my wife. :-) ) I'd like to know how to use the tools I bought, however, so any info on the red and green pastes much appreciated.

Looking forward to a BBS someday soon!
KD

Originally Posted by stypticinthemorning

I was unclear on how to do the HHT, I was holding the hair between my thumb and finger, descending vertically, and then using the straight like a scythe in wheat, with a moderately rapid chopping motion, with a careful grip and cutting away from my body of course. The straight would cut a hair in this method.

Originally Posted by stypticinthemorning

However, I recently saw the HHT animation AVI file, that shows the test performed with the blade cutting-edge upwards, and the hair held horizontally and lowered across the blade somewhat slowly.

Originally Posted by stypticinthemorning

When I do that, the hair just deflects and slides off the side of the razor. Clearly, I'm not 'there' yet in sharpness.

Or you've overhoned it, or your hair doesn't like razors. Some guys have no luck at all with the HHT because their hair is too fine. Also, if it's clean and dry it works better than oily or wet.

Originally Posted by stypticinthemorning

So, first question to the honemeisters -- should I be able to pass a HHT off the 4K/8K pyramid, or is it more typical to pass that test after a final polishing? IOW, can a HHT be a "test" point for when to move on to final polishing, or to keep practicing on the waterstones?

I like to try the HHT off the Norton as it's a clear indicator of how the edge is developing. I think any yob could pass HHT after polishing and stropping and you might still easily get a bad shave.

Originally Posted by stypticinthemorning

Second, and on to red and green pastes -- I've not seen it stated quite explicitly just when one uses the red and green pastes, and in what progression? I made the assumption that the two pastes should be used in lieu of a 12K polishing waterstone, or Coticule, for a final finish after the 4K/8K pyramid?

I use a bit of both right now. Some guys prefer one or the other.

Originally Posted by stypticinthemorning

From there, I stropped the razor about 50 strokes on a russian leather and shaved. I was elated that I was able to carefully take all the hair off my showered and brush-lathered face, with no major nicks, although a few red micro-spots here and there, but later in the day I noticed far too much irritation to repeat the shave every day. I'm determined to get this, however.

It does take a while (about 2weeks) for your face to get used to straight shaving, but if you're feeling extremely razed it could be an overhoned edge and/or bad technique. Pressure is a reall no no with teh straight. It doesn't help the shave and it can hurt.

X

Thanks for the excellent advice. It sounds like I've got the right ideas, and just need to work on technique and judgement.

Can you expound a bit on the red and green paste, when you say "a bit of both", do you mean a sequence off the Norton to green, then red? About how many strokes? Is there a pyramid, or do you do all of one, then the other?

Also, when the Kitiyama 12K stone arrives, I presume using that for polish obviates the need to use the red or green paste? Or is there still some benefit to the pastes as a final finish, especially the red?