Thread: Maintaining the edge for a beginner

Hi,

Background:

New to SR shaving (From DE). I have two shave ready razors, one a new Dovo with a free honing available. The other a used Spike. Both were bought shave ready (and are). I've been shaving with the Dovo (and stropping with a 2.5" strop - webbed and leather - X pattern). Only shaved once with the Spike, and want to save it as reference, until I send out the Dovo.

Objective:
I want to be able to maintain the edge on these, after getting the one professionally sharpened (SRD). I purchased Norton kit (flattening stone, 220/1K/4K/8K) and have been reading up on them as much as possible. I don't have anything finer, no barber hones, no sprays, Cr-ox, or whatever. i'd love to hear advice for how to handle some issues (maybe common problems) as well.

Questions:

For a beginner, like myself, what should be the plan of attack, when the blade starts to lose it's edge?
Should I use the 8K, 4K/8K, get a higher grid stone, or get pasted strops?

I'm a bit confused from all the reading - many opinions - some saying learn the lower grits before trying the finer stones, others saying pastes/sprays (I haven't looked into this at all) and then finishing hones.

Next, what actions are needed if one has a blunt? A small shiny spot on the blade? Can it be corrected by stropping? Spray/paste? If honing needed, what grit is needed? I'm not sure how it happened, but it may have been due to my shaving practice initially. Before I got a scuttle, I had the shaving cup in the sink, sitting in water, and was swishing the blade in the water to get lather off of it. May have bumped it?

It doesn't seem to be causing any real discomfort in shaving, though it doesn't seem to shave as well as when I got it. It's hard to tell, as I'm learning shaving technique with the SR as well. My last 4 shaves have been very good, only one nick (today) and very close. I did do one shave with the other blade a few days ago, and it was cutting better, so I suspect I also am not stropping well yet (it's been about a month) - guessing that it's not a difference in honing work done by others.

In reading other threads, I did see one comment about the strop twisting a bit. Mine does that sometimes as well. Would the result be that there would be more pressure on some parts of the edge? I can't tell, as I don't have a magnifying glass yet, and visually, it seems to be even along the length. I'm trying to make sure that doesn't happen. Would a paddle strop be a better way for a beginner (trying to eliminate all the variables)? If it does turn out to cause uneven wear, what's the suggested corrective action? Does one go back to re-setting the bevel?

I did try the pin test for rolled edge, and it doesn't seem to catch anywhere on either side, except at that one small spot where I noticed the ding (so maybe I'm not rolling the edge stropping, at least .

Here is a photo with my phone - really hard to take the shot, but you can see the reflection where the ding is... red arrow drawn.


Here is another shot, I think a bit out of focus though.



Looking forward to your suggestions... as this forum is GREAT!

Thanks,

PCM

Since you are new to this, your best option for that small ding might be to take advantage of the free honing to sort it out.

The best way to avoid doing this again is to never let your razor be anywhere nearer to your sink than your face. Don't rinse your blade off in the sink. I know it looked cool in the movies but it is asking for just the damage you already did. Wipe lather off on a cloth or sponge. This will avoid dings and will prevent getting water in the pivot where it is most likely to lead to rust.

For your main question, the answer is always the same...

It is easier to keep a razor sharp than it is to sharpen a razor. As soon as you notice an diminishment in the quality of the shave, that is the time to touch up the razor. 5 to 10 very light round trip strokes on the 8k Norton should be your starting point, followed by stropping. If you are still not satisfied with the shave, repeat it before your next shave. Go ahead and do it a few days in a row if needed.

This should be sufficient to help you get the most from what you have. If you do get another ding, after you figure out your honing stroke, then you can try to repair it yourself with the 4k or, if need be, the 1k.

Watch videos, read, ask questions, and be patient!

Then you can consider getting a higher grit hone. The two most commonly raved about here (not the only options by any means) are the Naniwa SuperStone (now called Select I think) 12k and the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k.

Also, be sure to read up on hone lapping. It is not optional.

Welcome to the fun!

For razors that have already been honed, I will typically refresh them on CrOx when they start to tug on the hair instead of cutting it. Just 5 or so swipes on the CrOx strop will do it. After a while, CrOx won't refresh it and I do 10 X strokes on a 12k.
For a small ding like you have, a few passes on an 8k will clean it up - if you know how to hone a razor. If you don't know how, then take advantage of that free honing or find someone with experience in your area.

Be careful with the spike point while you learn. They like to bite ears and noses.

I shaved off an 8k for a year so you have everything you NEED. Learning to hone should be done on a cheap razor. You might also want to keep an eye on your blade when you close it. Dings like that can come from scraping the side of the scales too. It's your call to hone your own. If you do try just watch some vids and take it easy. Think light. Real light. I would try and then send it out. Just don't take it so far it becomes an edge restore and not just a hone :<0)

Of course it depends on the severity of the ding, but I doubt that ding can be corrected with only a few passes on the 8k.

However, the point still applies. When doing any sort of touch up, follow the mantra of less is more. First start with the higher grit with fewer, then if needed more, strokes and see if it solves the problem. If not, then drop down to lower grits.

Originally Posted by Utopian

The best way to avoid doing this again is to never let your razor be anywhere nearer to your sink than your face. Don't rinse your blade off in the sink. I know it looked cool in the movies but it is asking for just the damage you already did. Wipe lather off on a cloth or sponge. This will avoid dings and will prevent getting water in the pivot where it is most likely to lead to rust.

Good idea. I suspect it may have contacted the cup or something.

For your main question, the answer is always the same...

It is easier to keep a razor sharp than it is to sharpen a razor. As soon as you notice an diminishment in the quality of the shave, that is the time to touch up the razor. 5 to 10 very light round trip strokes on the 8k Norton should be your starting point, followed by stropping. If you are still not satisfied with the shave, repeat it before your next shave. Go ahead and do it a few days in a row if needed.

This should be sufficient to help you get the most from what you have. If you do get another ding, after you figure out your honing stroke, then you can try to repair it yourself with the 4k or, if need be, the 1k.

Thanks! I was wondering what would be a good approach. Will likely send this in for honing, once I get my magnifying glass and can look at the edge to see how it is doing overall. Maybe I can ask SRD for comments on the edge as well.

Then you can consider getting a higher grit hone. The two most commonly raved about here (not the only options by any means) are the Naniwa SuperStone (now called Select I think) 12k and the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k.

Again, thanks, I'll look into the forums to learn more about these, so I can make an intelligent purchase later on. Will try to work with what I have for now (when I need to hone). I've got some time, assuming I do OK with maintaining the Spike.

Also, be sure to read up on hone lapping. It is not optional.

Yes, I have the flattening stone that I'll use, when I get to honing. I'm in no rush to start honing, since I have time available.

Originally Posted by criswilson10

For razors that have already been honed, I will typically refresh them on CrOx when they start to tug on the hair instead of cutting it. Just 5 or so swipes on the CrOx strop will do it. After a while, CrOx won't refresh it and I do 10 X strokes on a 12k.
For a small ding like you have, a few passes on an 8k will clean it up - if you know how to hone a razor. If you don't know how, then take advantage of that free honing or find someone with experience in your area.

Be careful with the spike point while you learn. They like to bite ears and noses.

Thanks for the info on the refresh you do. Is the CrOx put on a linen strop? Do you use a hanging strop or paddle?

I'm super cautious with both straights, taking 40-45 mins to shave! I go very slow, working on blade orientation, angle, etc. Even with the curved toe, I watch when I get near my ears. I have a mustache, so my nose is safe The most problem area for me is in the chin area. One, because I have a mole under my lower lip on left side. Two, because I'm trying to figure how technique in that area. Three, because my hair is much coarser and sticks straight up in the area below my mustache on both sides. Usually the left side is the place for nicks, although I'm doing well recently, so starting to get better there.

Warning is well taken though!

Originally Posted by 10Pups

I shaved off an 8k for a year so you have everything you NEED.

That's seems to be the common theme, and what advice I was following with the hone purchases. Will try to get the basics working.

Learning to hone should be done on a cheap razor.

The Spike was a relatively low cost blade. Initially, I was thinking about getting a cheap blade or a non-shave ready blade, but I'm leaning to not doing that, and instead, just acquiring shave ready blades from the classifieds (or maybe whipped dog) and then try to maintain them. This way I have known good blade condition, and maybe are dealing with minor things, instead of major corrections (which are beyond my ability to tackle at this time). At least that is where my head is at this time. Open to suggestions from the experts here though!

You might also want to keep an eye on your blade when you close it. Dings like that can come from scraping the side of the scales too. It's your call to hone your own. If you do try just watch some vids and take it easy. Think light. Real light. I would try and then send it out. Just don't take it so far it becomes an edge restore and not just a hone :<0)

I'll keep an eye on the closing. Seems like there is plenty of room and it's all pretty tight (no play). For the honing, this time, I'll likely just send it out. I'll try a honing myself, on the next time refresh is needed.

Ok, so all common problems. First the edge is very fragile, as you found, follow advice and keep it away from the sink or faucet. Wipe the lather on a towel or sponge or your hand, (edge away from forward motion), then rinse your hand.

You are probably using too much pressure stropping, again typical. Use just weight of the blade and do more laps, 100. Keep the spine on the strop at all times and stop before you flip. Go slow, about 30 -40 laps per minute. A lap is up and down.

You will need magnification, a good 60X lighted loupe can be purchase for 2-3 dollars, buy 2 or 3 it is cheaper than buying batteries. Search 60X lighted loupe, they are silver plastic, with a LED light.

This will help you maintain your edge, if you are using too much pressure you will see micro chipping or larger on the edge. Do have the chipped razor pro honed, that chip will get larger and will cut you.

You do have all the stones you need for now, the 8k is a great stone. You will need a lapping plate though. You can lap on 320 grit Wet & Dry, the Norton plate is useless and makes a mess. You can buy a good 3X8 DMT for about 50 dollars and is a great investment and will last a life time if you lap under water. I recently bought an I Wood 300 diamond plate and I like it better than my DMT, they are about the same price.

Read up on lapping your stone, there is a lot written on it.

I would purchase another razor for practicing and learning to hone, eventually you will have a 3 razor rotation.

As said less is more when touching up and the 8k is a surprisingly aggressive stone and can remove many small chips, if not, then move down in grit.

You can use some Chrome Oxide after the 8k or to maintain you razors on a separate paddle strops. Check the classifieds Glenn had one in the 30-40 dollar range and I think quality Chrome Ox as well, if not SRD has all you will need. There are many threads on pasting strops.

Make sure to use lite pressure when you strop on a pasted strop.

Welcome to the forum, you are making good progress and have made wise purchases. Enjoy.

Originally Posted by pcm

Hi,
Would a paddle strop be a better way for a beginner (trying to eliminate all the variables)?

Hi PCM and welcome.

Well, there is a lot here. I may not hit all the bullet points, but I'm sure the fellas will.

Concerning the above statement: I am one of those who bought a board strop 3" from Glen (gssixgun) and swear by it to this day. Originally, I have a 3" hanging strop, but discovered that it had a defect. Now it and it's hanging felt counterpart have CrOx on them. The 3" strop also removed the need to learn the X-stroke right away. While it is a skill that you will need eventually(another contentious firestarter in and of itself), you don't need that variable steepening the learning curve in the beginning.

The board strop does help remove some of the beginning difficulties in stropping, in my experience. The twisting, cupping, etc.

As per refreshing an edge honed by Lynn, I'd double check with him about the last stone in came off of during the honing process. Usually, if CrOx doesn't get your blade to sing again, you can pull out the stone (say, a Nani 12K) and do a few strokes like Lynn on his video. Literally, only takes a few strokes. I definitely would not go down to the 8K level to do a refresh of a blade honed by Lynn. While a person could shave comfortably of an 8K all their lives, most honemeisters bring their edge up to a higher grit for their customers.

As per the shiny spot, if you look top down and the edge of the razor with the edge facing your eyes and the spine farthest away, shine light on the it, do you see and shiny spots as your eyes run along its edge?

I would think that the "ding" was caused by the sink contact. I'm a little surprised it hasn't significally affected the shave. I've never been able to strop something like that out. IMO, only honing will straighten that ding out again.

Very nice blades, btw!

Oh, quick query. Just out of personal interest, I was wondering why your were going to send the other blade out to Dovo? Are they offering free honing or something?

In no order at all,

Siguy

ps-Finding a mentor in your area will be one of the best pieces of advice that any beginner could take. Wish I had... May want to get a little more specific in your locale profile.