Thread: Newbie Tip: Norton lapping/honing/glazing

what exactly is a glazed stone? An over lapped stone?

Stone that is loaded up with steel, oil, and skin . A loaded stone doesn't cut for poopy...

I am currently trying to restore a #14 Filarmonica Doble Temple that I picked up on eBay. I'm using hard and black Arkansas stones, and having no discernible success. I have had success with a Genco and a C-mon using the same stones. Is there something about the Filarmonica. Also, how can I tell when to move to a finer grit, eg. from the hard Arkansas to the black? Thanks.
Irish

I just visited the Coticule Chronicles, and saw a number of mentions of some type of slurry used when sharpening. To what does this refer?
Irish

I finished working on my remaining two razors tonight, and came across some other points. I'm new to this, but kinda curious if some of the 'generally established rules' are more just recommendations:

1) Up until this point, I've been lapping my hones on my large glass dining table. I've read about a lot of people going out of their way to buy plate glass or other products from the hardware store for this purpose. Tonight, I got lazy, and decided to just lay the sandpaper on the kitchen countertop near the sink. Not only did this save time and make for easy cleanup, but the the thickness of the sandpaper + water tension seems to make any issues with smoothness negligible. Maybe we just need a generally flat/sturdy surface, and not something that needs to pass a micrometer test? (It looked good when I tested it on the glass table.)

2) I again used 220 grit paper, and really, this only seems to change the texture of the 4K side. The 8K side was still smooth as glass, with just a slight bit of drag to it -- not entirely different than what I got using 800 grit paper. Perhaps the sandpaper was worn, but this would back up someone earlier in the thread who stated that the grit didn't make a whole lot of difference in the stones' finish. Another bonus is that the lower-grit paper lasts longer, doesn't gunk up as easily, and cuts quicker. (Saves time, and the paper is reusable for next time.)

Yes, I've officially put too much thought into this.

Originally Posted by irish19

Is there something about the Filarmonica. Also, how can I tell when to move to a finer grit, eg. from the hard Arkansas to the black? Thanks.
Irish

I can't really help with the process/stones, but I have heard that the Filarmonicas are difficult to get shave-ready out of the box. I almost bought one, as it is a sharp looking razor, but avoided it (for the time being) due to the honing difficulty.

Originally Posted by irish19

I just visited the Coticule Chronicles, and saw a number of mentions of some type of slurry used when sharpening. To what does this refer?
Irish

When you hone, very small particles of the hone itself will break up and create a slush upon the surface -- referred to as slurry. This slurry is what helps to polish and sharpen the blade.

That's also why we have to lap the hones every so often -- they wear away when this slurry is created, and become cupped. You need a very flat surface on a hone to achieve a shave-quality edge on a razor.

Originally Posted by irish19

I just visited the Coticule Chronicles, and saw a number of mentions of some type of slurry used when sharpening. To what does this refer?
Irish

slurry is a mixture of water and ground stone. generally used with the belgium coticules and the german eschers and thuringers stones. it is made by wetting the stone and rubbing it with a small peice of similer stone, it will make the honing go quicker but should not be used on the final polishing hone. rarely, people make a slurry on the norton 4k stone.
you never want to try one on a barber's hone there you just need water or lather.

Originally Posted by Alexander

I finished working on my remaining two razors tonight, and came across some other points. I'm new to this, but kinda curious if some of the 'generally established rules' are more just recommendations:

1) Up until this point, I've been lapping my hones on my large glass dining table. I've read about a lot of people going out of their way to buy plate glass or other products from the hardware store for this purpose. Tonight, I got lazy, and decided to just lay the sandpaper on the kitchen countertop near the sink. Not only did this save time and make for easy cleanup, but the the thickness of the sandpaper + water tension seems to make any issues with smoothness negligible. Maybe we just need a generally flat/sturdy surface, and not something that needs to pass a micrometer test? (It looked good when I tested it on the glass table.)

2) I again used 220 grit paper, and really, this only seems to change the texture of the 4K side. The 8K side was still smooth as glass, with just a slight bit of drag to it -- not entirely different than what I got using 800 grit paper. Perhaps the sandpaper was worn, but this would back up someone earlier in the thread who stated that the grit didn't make a whole lot of difference in the stones' finish. Another bonus is that the lower-grit paper lasts longer, doesn't gunk up as easily, and cuts quicker. (Saves time, and the paper is reusable for next time.)

Yes, I've officially put too much thought into this.



I can't really help with the process/stones, but I have heard that the Filarmonicas are difficult to get shave-ready out of the box. I almost bought one, as it is a sharp looking razor, but avoided it (for the time being) due to the honing difficulty.

the flatter the substrate, plate glass, granite tile, lapping stone the more uniform surface you will get on your hone which in turn means the easier it will be to hone properly.

i lap my norton 4k/8/ with their flattening stone it is about a 200 grit stone works a charm, no need for hight grit lapping on sandpaper.

Originally Posted by syslight

the flatter the substrate, plate glass, granite tile, lapping stone the more uniform surface you will get on your hone which in turn means the easier it will be to hone properly.

Absolutely. I'm just curious if there's a point of diminishing returns.

To reiterate, after lapping on my countertop, I checked for flatness again on the glass table just for kicks. It looked just the same as it always does after lapping on glass. No air pockets, impossible to lift off without twisting.

I could be dead wrong -- it's just in my nature to question. Rubbing a 3x8" brick in *circular patterns* upon a seemingly 99% flat surface, with .018"-thick sandpaper + water as a medium, would seem to negate any minuscule surface irregularities.

I should go stick a straight edge on my kitchen counter and see if I can stick a .018" feeler gauge at any point along an 8" stretch...

Originally Posted by Alexander

... would seem to negate any minuscule surface irregularities.

It's not minute surface irregularities that you're worried about, it's warped surfaces.