Thread: Various questions on hones, strops etc.

Having recently started again shaving with a straight (after my old straight fell down and broke ) I ordered some stuff and would like your opinion if they would be enough.

I ordered some 0.25 diamond paste, a russian leather 2" wide DOVO strop, a DOVO 5/8" CS with bone handle, a R.A. Rooney silvertip brush, a stand and finally a 175x40mm select grade coticule.
I already have a 5/8" SS Tuckmar, a paddle strop, filarmonica brown paste and a double sided hone of unknown grit size and origin . If I had to guess I would say it is comparable to a Norton 1000/4000.

My question is this will the coticule be enough followed by the 0.25 paste?
Should I have gotten also some 0.50 paste?
I also read that there is no difference in the result you get from a select grade to a first grade coticule. Is that true according to your experience?
My reasoning when I made my purchase was that I can get my razor sharp enough to shave (although not as smooth as I would like) with the use of my hone, the filarmonica paste (which by the way seems to be extremelly coarse since it scratches the hell out of my razor ) and the strop.
So I thought that even with a little more work I could use only the coticule (ommiting something like a 8000 Norton), then go on to a pasted side of my strop with 0.25 diamond paste (again requiring a bit more work since I will not use the 0.5) and finally stropping on the hanging strop.
Am I right in thinking this will work?

Taz,

I think you're on the right track here. This is all excellent equipment; the downside of that is you can't blame any problems on your gear.

Your unmarked hone plus the coticule ought to be able to keep your razor shaving very comfortably. In fact, I would start with just the coticule and see if you can get the razor shaving well that way. Try doing sets of 50 laps, with a shave test after each. If that doesn't work after three or four tests, you'll need to use the coarser hone.

You will need to spend a little more time on the coticule since you don't have an intermediate step between the 4K and the coticule. Don't be too shy with the coticule; it's a slow hone, so you're unlikely to ruin your razor. And it doesn't seem to be capable of overhoning. If you do too many strokes you're just wasting a little metal, not creating a wire edge that will lead to damage on the edge...

Once the razor is shaving well, you'll never need to use the coarse hone again unless you chip the edge somehow.

I would suggest bypassing the coarser paste and just using the fine diamond paste after the coticule. After you get the hang of the coticule, you may find that you don't need to use the pastes anymore.

Good luck; let us know if you get stuck.

Josh

Thanks Josh,

I will sure bypass the coarse paste since I do not want it to ruin my new razor (my Tuckmar is already scratched)
Now all I have to do is wait for my two packages to arrive .

Sounds pretty good except for a preferance of mine. I have a 3" Dovo strop and I find it much easier to use. Enjoy your new toys

So the first package finally arrived (the one with the coticule inside).
I start the slurry with the small stone and start honing my SS Tuckmar.
After about 50 laps I try the HHT but the hair just bends out of the way.
I do another 50 laps still the same.
To cut a long story short the thing will simply not pass the HHT even after more than 1000 laps.
I have tried everything honing with slurry, only water, dry, resetting the bevel with circular motions, EVERYTHING...
Even if I try to hold the hair from both sides it takes a substantial amount of force to cut it.
So my question is : could I have ruined the edge so much with my previous attempts to hone it with various stones (not suitable for razors) that the coticule is not able to restore it? (even after a zillion laps?)
The funny thing is I could get it to pass the HHT with a hone I have of unknown grit size and origin. My estimate was that is was something like 1000/4000 but having now seen the coticule (ca. 10000) I would say that the finest side (the only one I dared to use) is around 1000 at best.
Could it be that the razor is s**t?
Is it possible for a SS razor not to be able to make it pass the HHT after the coticule?
Fortunately I am also waiting for my other package which includes a CS DOVO and some 0.25 diamond sharpening paste among other things.
PS1 Test shaving showed that the razor shaved better after the coticule.
PS2 I also think there is nothing wrong with my honing technique

The HHT is no gold standard whatsoever! If you happen to have thin hairs they'll bend away from the razor rather than cut it (like my hairs and my wife's and daughters' hairs). Even the Lynn honed TI raffle razor I recently acquired did not pass the HHT with our thin hairs. I use the arm hair test and have developed a "feel" for the razor's performance that I need.

The shave test is the one and only test that will tell you if the razor is honed well enough or not!

Thanks,
but I also tried the arm hair test and it still will not cut any hair (I keep the edge of the razor 1-2mm above the skin). As far as my hair goes it is neither thick nor thin. It seems that the razor does not "bite" into the hair to begin with and it seem I cannot get it sharp enough with the coticule, I will also try with the diamond paste when it arrives but I have a feeling this stainless steel razor will never be as sharp as I want it to be.
The good thing is I can at least shave with it AND I have a CS DOVO coming my way .

Stainless steel is harder to hone. Are you sure it is not overhoned nor that the edge has microchips?

If you can shave with it the bevel can't be too bad. If I have a razor that shaves but isn't great I take it to the coticule after shaving and give it 10-15 laps and strop and shave the next day. I go on like that till the edge does no longer improve. This is better than honing endlessly to obtain a better edge and inevitably overhone. Shaving will remove any wire edge when present.

You might want to do the marker test to ensure that the bevel makes good contact along its whole length with the hone.

Hope this helps and let us know.

I do not have a microscope to check for microchips and I thought that although overhoning is bad for the actual shave it might even help on the HHT. Also is it possible to overhone on a coticule?

I did the marker test and this is what I found out:
The bevel makes good contact with the hone across its length BUT the bevel is not uniform. It starts from ca. 0.5mm at the tip of the razor to ca. 1mm towards the tang on one side and the opposite on the other.
It looks as if the edge is misaligned (either manufacturing fault or I did this when I tried to hone it on the rough hone ) to the spine of the razor.
Any ideas?

Most bevels when studied are not 100% uniform, this does not matter.If the marker test shows your bevel gets honed along its full length it is just a matter of getting the sharpness OK, this does not exclude overhoning. As said I am not an HHT expert so can't comment on HHT and overhoned edges.

Yes you can overhone with a coticule. If the coticule is of good quality you should with a good technique (shown on Lynn's DVD) be able to get a good bevel. At the final stages of polishing use very little to no slurry. Tim Zowada posted pictures of the microscopic appearance of bevels created w/ a coticule using them w/ and w/o slurry. W/o slurry the bevels look much smoother!

On YouTube you can also find videos covering honing razors, our member LX_Emegency also did a video and posted it here.

Let's know your progress in this.