Thread: New Guy

If you really want one of a kind. You could always ask Bruno to hand forge one for ya. He does incredible work. It may fall in the same ball park, as a vintage your wanting. Just saying.

Originally Posted by outback

If you really want one of a kind. You could always ask Bruno to hand forge one for ya. He does incredible work. It may fall in the same ball park, as a vintage your wanting. Just saying.

It's only money, u can't take it with u, and no good if your not gonna spend it. Enjoy a few fruits of your labor, before it rots.

@outback not really looking for a one off custom job as I kind of have that with my Thiers Issard. But as stated in the RAZOR forum thread, I would like a nice Wade & Butcher example just because they are such an iconic name in the SR world!?!...Not necessarily the best, not the rarest and not the most expensive! But to me there is just something about the name and style and shape of some of these Razors! After I manage to get my hands on a satisfactory specimen I will probably look for one other Razor that is considered to be above a Wade & Butcher quality or more sort after!?! But right now my mission is to find a NICE RESTORED Wade & Butcher
As for enjoying the fruits of my labour, I am well down the pecking order!?! But don't mind as it makes everything I get worthwhile and special!

I got side tracked in what thread I was in.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I don't think I'm being stubborn, more pragmatically skeptical. Lots of things are "extolled." The Emporers New Clothes comes to mind. I said, maybe it is worth the difference and I would gladly be proven wrong. The first "fine tea," I saw in a store gave me jawdrop sticker shock and I swore I would never spend that much on tea. Once it went on clearance I broke down and begrudgingly bought a tin since the sampler scent was so good. After I had tried it I would gladly pay twice as much if I could find it again.

It might be worth trying a sampler if they have them for a decent price, sometimes samplers are sold at a premium. I just don't want to repeat that Art of Shaving mistake. There's $30 wasted I'll never see again. Okay soap but definitely WAY overpriced.

AOS hoodwinked a lot of folks, but I guess you just got to look at them as a place to buy gifts that might or might not be ever used by the recipient, instead of a place to shop for your own gear.

LOL on the tea! I finally finished drinking up all the vintage Pu Er wheels I bought in China about 6 or 7 years ago. I paid total probably $50 for about a shrimp basket full of Pu Er, along with various green teas recommended by the charming sales clerk who unfortunately spoke maybe 17 words of English, and I probably could have flipped everything for a couple grand when I got home. I went to a large department store twice and got the local prices. The third time, everything was at 10x and still probably a good price but I already had plenty, kinda picked the shelves clean of the top shelf stuff, actually, and also snagged a couple of truly magnificent tea sets for chimp change. "Fine" tea gets stepped on a lot as it passes through the middlemen. Now here at the house we drink basically any jasmine green that is cheap by the pound or kilo on Amazon and no way in hell I would pay 100x just because some tea snobs say it is probably too good for me to properly appreciate, anyway.

The OLD formula VDH Luxury was a really good soap for me, at a couple bucks a puck. About the time they changed it, I found Godrej Rich Lather cream in the red tube in Dubai, and that stuff rocks at about 75 cents a tube, probably about 5x that online. Crazy stuff, and super cheap. I have Proraso and Cella, too, both very excellent and I highly recommend. A couple years ago I grated up a stick of Arko and pressed it into a mug and I am STILL using it, and honestly it isn't bad, the smell has faded but it still lathers great, and I will start using the Cella or my cousin's soap he makes, when I finally get to the bottom of the Arko. Honestly out of the popular brands, there are really only 3 or 4 that are not really up to the task. Cremo, is one. Some will argue with me on this but I call out Williams, also. But lots of so-so soaps with luxury prices usually just cause they smell nice. And some folks simply cannot abide the smell of Arko, although it does lather great and the stick format can be convenient for travel, and the smell fades away by the time your face is dry. For a good middle of the road product I like the Proraso creams and the Cella. For budget, can't beat the Godrej Rich Lather cream or soap, if you can find it at your local Indian shop for a good price.

Originally Posted by Muttley

@outback not really looking for a one off custom job as I kind of have that with my Thiers Issard. But as stated in the RAZOR forum thread, I would like a nice Wade & Butcher example just because they are such an iconic name in the SR world!?!...Not necessarily the best, not the rarest and not the most expensive! But to me there is just something about the name and style and shape of some of these Razors! After I manage to get my hands on a satisfactory specimen I will probably look for one other Razor that is considered to be above a Wade & Butcher quality or more sort after!?! But right now my mission is to find a NICE RESTORED Wade & Butcher
As for enjoying the fruits of my labour, I am well down the pecking order!?! But don't mind as it makes everything I get worthwhile and special!

Nice setup you got there, Muttley. It oughter gitter done.

W&B made some lovely razors but TBH I think there is a lot of cult demand driving the prices up. However, without a doubt you will like it if you get a decent one.

Honing doesn't have to cost a lot. OTOH don't waste your time and money trying to learn with something that nobody else on this forum would even bother with. A good Shapton or Naniwa setup is great, but will set you back a couple hundred. The thing is, if you start with shave ready razors, all you really need is a finisher. A 12k Naniwa Superstone is pretty easy to use, and not cheap but not so bad, either. Cheapest foot in the door is an acrylic plate from TAP Plastics, and some type 261 or 262 3M lapping film or the 26M equivalent from NanoLapTech. Beware of fakes and "just as good" stuff online. I have my acrylic cut 1-1/2" thick. I used to use thinner but the thick stuff keeps your fingertips clear when honing in hand. 3" wide, 12" long. Cut the film sheets lengthwise in thirds. Don't get sticky back film, make sure it is plain back. Water will hold it on the plate. For finishing you want 1µ grit, or one micron. So about 20 bucks for the plate. Film two or three bucks per sheet. Three pieces per sheet, hone a dozen or a few more razors per piece if you don't slash it to bits LOL. So pretty cheap when you are only honing your own razors. The Naniwa, like all stones, needs to be lapped and relapped periodically, so that's another skill to develop. But it's a good stone, and there are a couple of other brands worth considering. Lots of guys here like Shapton.

Anyway I suggest you don't worry about a full progression of stones or even films right away. Start with touchups, with your finisher of choice. When you can restore a previously sharp edge, dulled only through normal use, to where it will treetop hair at 1/4" above the skin, and deliver a comfortable and effortless shave, then you might think about filling out the honing kit so you can bring ebay beaters and razors found in the wild back to life.

@CrescentCityRazors Thanks for your input and some good sound advice, very interesting information that i will use as reference for the future!
I like the idea of bringing a shave ready back to it's peak after normal use. I have often wondered how much OVERKILL is given to honing??? I mean back in the day when SR's were the norm, i cannot envisage any guy sitting down with a bunch of different stones!?! I doubt half these stones would have been known about but the main thing i think would be the time element as men generally worked long hours and unless from the upper classes shaving wasn't a daily experience for this simple reason!?!
I may WELL be wrong on this as i have NO knowledge on the subject of honing...But surely the edge gets to an optimum point/sharpness that it cannot be improved on!?! So isn't various stones just down to preference to use more so with the final stone used??? It just seems way too complicated as i would imagine way back when, guys would have x1 finishing stone of nothing fancy and maybe x1 other stone at best if neede more work???
This is why i DON'T mess with things i know nothing about!?!

Andy

Originally Posted by Muttley

@CrescentCityRazors Thanks for your input and some good sound advice, very interesting information that i will use as reference for the future!
I like the idea of bringing a shave ready back to it's peak after normal use. I have often wondered how much OVERKILL is given to honing??? I mean back in the day when SR's were the norm, i cannot envisage any guy sitting down with a bunch of different stones!?! I doubt half these stones would have been known about but the main thing i think would be the time element as men generally worked long hours and unless from the upper classes shaving wasn't a daily experience for this simple reason!?!
I may WELL be wrong on this as i have NO knowledge on the subject of honing...But surely the edge gets to an optimum point/sharpness that it cannot be improved on!?! So isn't various stones just down to preference to use more so with the final stone used??? It just seems way too complicated as i would imagine way back when, guys would have x1 finishing stone of nothing fancy and maybe x1 other stone at best if neede more work???
This is why i DON'T mess with things i know nothing about!?!

Andy

Back in the day, the barber hone was a popular part of everyman's shave kit. The user would occasionally give his razor a dozen swats on it and call it good. The use of CrOx on a leather strop was also popular. I think modern shavers are spoiled by edges that would have been like science fiction back in the golden age of shaving. And the synthetic stones of the day were nothing to write home about. Carbo, India, and the barber hone. There was no progression set. If you damaged your razor you would use your knife sharpening stones to bring it back, then gitter sharp-ish with your barber hone. Some barbers would take in razors belonging to customers and hone them for a fee, and there were cutlery shops in big cities that could do razors.

Like I said, we are spoiled today. Just in my lifetime, the Norton 8k has gone from an acknowledged finisher, to a mid-range stone. I am not happy with a 12k edge anymore, or a 1µ film edge. I have to run a post finish progression of .5µ, .25µ, and .1µ lapped and diamond pasted balsa to have an edge that satisfies me. But the fact is, you CAN shave straight off a 4k stone or even a 1k stone. Not exactly a luxurious experience but it can be done, and shavers back in the day would make do with whatever they could manage. Or go to the barber for a shave on occasion. Not every man even owned his own razor until after WW1 or so, and then it was more often than not the Gillette double edge "safety" razor. By WW2, straight razors had been eclipsed by various disposable blade razor types, but a Saturday shave at the barbershop was still a popular thing. The art of shaving in the manly way was no longerpassed down from Father to Son as it once had been. The formerly popular barber hones got stuffed into the back of drawers and shelves and pretty much forgotten. With the resurgence of shaving with a proper razor, these things are all over fleabay and some are pretty good, some are dogs, but the "grit" size is all over the map and as I said, the modern shaver is spoiled by modern edges and modern stones.

It its day, the barber hone was king, and the edge it put on a razor was good enough. There might be no other stone in the house except for knife sharpening stones or the occasional slate or river rock or hard Arky or rare coticule. And that brings up another one stone solution. It might interest you to do some research on coticules and especially the "dilucot" method of one stone honing. There are still guys who swear by a coticule edge. Too tame for me but one guy's tame is another guys' smooth and comfy.

@CrescentCityRazors it would seem my thinking wasn't too far off for how SR honing was back in the day and I think your choice of words "SPOILT" sums up today's SR shavers and Honers!?!
And again a very interesting and impressive post to read! Much appreciated!
At 57yrs of age, I so wish I had come to this game Soooo much earlier in life! And feel it's a little too late!?! But that said I am more than happy to be apart of it NOW and learn techniques and the history behind SR shaving, plus the new methods and advancements that have taken place!

I staahted when I was 53.... you didn’t miss the boat. Just be glad you jumped aboard