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Thread: Help honing kamisori
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Yesterday, 07:32 PM #1
- Join Date
- Dec 2024
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- 2
Thanked: 0Help honing kamisori
Hello, I introduced myself earlier on the intro forum. Thanks for the welcome! https://sharprazorpalace.com/member-...cing-self.html
So I have many Japanese swords (Nihonto and reproductions), the Nihonto being low end ones to practice polishing, Japanese knives, and some Japanese carpentry tools. For swords, knives, and planes/chisels, I can sharpen them pretty well. They will all shave, though not great (work fine for hand hair). However, I?ve been struggling to hone these two kamisori that I have. It?s like the skills that I have for these other ones aren?t really transferring over and I?m a bit at a loss.
So the story for the kamisori in the picture is that it?s an iwasaki I bought from Kent of Inglewood. It wasn?t too expensive. It came honed, but it dulled quickly (before I could finish half my face), so I suspected that it was honed with a foil burr.
So I decided I would rehone it so that it didn?t have a burr. I do all my sharpening edge leading Japanese style, and I read on science of sharp it should be possible to remove the microburr that always forms when you do this to be able to end up with a sharp razor?s edge.
I also watched this video:
and this video:
I?ve also read Alex Gilmore?s book ?Japanese Sharpening Stone Heaven? and looked at his website.
I have a paddle strop I bought from A Frames Tokyo (smooth side shown with the razor)
I have a lot of stones (way too many!), but these are the ones that I?m using currently:
Along the top, I have a binsui ~700 grit. Beside it an atoma 140.
On the bottom, I have an Aizu ~3000 grit, and Otaniyama ~6000 grit, an Ohira ~8000 grit, and an Okudo 10000+ grit, 5+. Beside that is the three lapping stones I use, an omura ~300 grit, a binsui ~700 grit, and a Koma nagura ~9000 grit.
The Otaniyama I use because it?s my flattest and hardest stone in that range. The Ohira because it?s relatively hard and flat, the Okudo because I heard on the Facebook JNat group that it should be a good finishing stone for razors. All of them I bought from Ikkyu Japan, but if you guys think another particular stone might be better, I probably have one, or one like it. I?m a rockhound who likes whetstones, so I also have a fair number from Manitoba, and a couple of other ones; one from Korea, one from Crete, a blue belgian coticule, for example. The coarse ones I've been using to try to set the bevel, because it takes way too long at 8000 grit and up. The Binsui is pretty fine for a binsui, and being natural it takes longer than a synth, but also leaves shallower scratches. The atoma I use for flattening, but usually follow it up with an omura, a binsui, and then a fine stone like the koma nagura, and carefully wash so there's no stray large grits.
I also recently bought a microscope.
So my problem is that I can get it to shave, but not comfortably. It will shave hand hair, and I've gotten a reasonable result with the tree topping test once, but I've lost that and am struggling to get it back. I try to start over, but it ends up worse than before!
Lately I?ve spent about 2 hours trying GSSixGun?s technique. I like it, I think it?s a good one, but I don?t think the bevel is right on the kamisori yet, so it?s not working.
Under the microscope, I think the soft side is perfect, the bevel is flat to the end. However, on the hard/printed side, there?s a bit of a microbevel just at the very end. Also, I can tell using my optivisor and a bright light that the end isn?t quite perfectly sharp yet (white line at the very tip, not black that shows it's perfectly sharp). Normally I'd incline the blade a bit, in this case on the hard side, so I'm sharpening just the edge, but I'm worried I won't get an acute enough angle that way, or that I'll be grinding away the edge too much.
So my dilemma is should I keep honing the printed side until the macro bevel is worn away and goes to the edge (wasting more steel), or should I try to make some kind of secondary bevel to the edge (maybe layers of tape on the spine?) to speed up the process and not waste steel. Again, I like GSSixGun?s technique, I?m going to use it. The problem is getting the bevel set up properly so that it works. I'm not sure how acute the angle should be, but I don't want to end up with a foil burr again. I try to use his technique exactly as he did it. What I'm not sure of is how the hands work. Up to now I use it as I normally do, very light pressure down, but putting a torque on the razor toward the edge. Thanks!
PS. I started trying to hone the other kamisori I have, but since I obviously don?t know what I?m doing yet, if I?m going to ruin it, I?d rather just ruin one!Last edited by Larason2; Yesterday at 08:30 PM.
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Yesterday, 08:57 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2022
- Location
- canada
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- 398
Thanked: 49If there is a double/micro bevel anywhere I would get rid of it, particularly if it is small as you describe. You probably have already removed most of it.
Its probably the reason you are not getting better results - you are not hitting the absolute edge.
Someone must have used tape or freehanded to get that which is not needed or wanted for that matter.Last edited by stoneandstrop; Yesterday at 09:26 PM.
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Yesterday, 09:23 PM #3
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
- Posts
- 17,304
Thanked: 3226IIRC, honing with the edge leading may create a burr on the edge and some stokes with the blade edge trailing will remove the burr. Asymmetrically ground blades like traditional Kamisoi have, will have two difference angles on the edge because of the grind. Also, with that type of grind only one side of the blade is traditionally used towards the face. A lot of people can and do ignore that last bit and use either side of the blade.
BobLife is a terminal illness in the end