I had been using a pyramid system, but recently abandoned it because i read some information saying that its pretty hard to overhone a razor. I go from 4k to 8k after passing the thumbnail test, and because i haven't had success with the HHT, i have been using a thumbpad test to feel how sharp the edge is. About 20-30 passes on the 4k, and then about the same on the 8k. I bet someone will recommend i go back to the pyramid method.