Thread: Requesting Assistance w/ Interpretation of an Observation

Hi Folks!

I've been hard at work learning this craft, as long as I've been a member of these forums (not long!) and I've come accross something which I'm not sure I understand.

Before I put my razor to my face, I make sure that it will cut hanging hair on a few random spots along the edge. When I've finished shaving it won't cut a hanging hair at all, and from that point I'm able to run it over linen and leather and it will cut hanging hairs again.

I notice that during my shave the beginning is much more enjoyable than the finale.

I'm thinking of a few explainations for what I'm experiencing:
1. That's how it's supposed to be (which I think is unlikely).
2. My technique needs improvement so the edge will last the duration of the shave.
3. My razor is overhoned and the edge is too malleable.

I think a combination of the latter two are most likely, but I wanted to see what you guys thought!

Thanks for you time and input!!

Well....I'm not a honing expert but my GUESS would be yes, it's a combination of the last two. I'll leave it to the true pros to actually give you some advice.....good luck!

Originally Posted by Gothamitic

...
I'm thinking of a few explainations for what I'm experiencing:
1. That's how it's supposed to be (which I think is unlikely).
2. My technique needs improvement so the edge will last the duration of the shave.
3. My razor is overhoned and the edge is too malleable.
...

Hi

Let me try to give you some more info:
1. It's not *supposed* to be like this, but there are some members with more experience than you and on SOME (maybe even MANY, but not ALL) razors they have to strop between passes - I guess they may have really extra-coarse beards. I have had to strop between passes sometimes too - no biggie. What is your razor, btw?

2. Bad technique can certainly dull the edge in use. Depending on the angle you may be scraping more than cutting, which would also be a problem for your skin, most likely

3. If it's overhoned you'd feel like cats are scratching you (not that I have been scratched by cats ) so I don't think this is it. And, moreover, once the overhoned edge disintegrates unevenly I really doubt you'd be able to start the shave comfortably with just stropping. The overhoned edge needs to be fixed by say backhoning to remove stuff and even it out, and then a few strokes on a hone to bring to shave-sharp again

Most likely, in my opinion, is that your edge may indeed be soft, and also not quite honed to its potential (a bit dull) - so you have to coax it all the time. If you hone - try 10 passes on the finest stone you have, or maybe diamond paste

Good luck and keep us posted
Ivo

I have to agree with Izlat on this. It sounds like your razor is not quite sharp enough ....but almost. Try the 10 laps on your finest hone then strop and shave test. Keep us posted.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

I have to agree with Izlat on this. It sounds like your razor is not quite sharp enough ....but almost. Try the 10 laps on your finest hone then strop and shave test. Keep us posted.

Randy -

Great to get confirmation from a master (I am, if anything, just an enthusiast)

Cheers
Ivo

Fantastic Replies!

Izlar: I'm using a Dovo Best Quality 5/8

I just kind of jumped into everything and I also got a Norton4&8, and I never had my razor done professionally. I've been figuring it out as I go, and it took me about 3 weeks before I could even get the razor to cut hair, let alone shave. I definetly have taken the hard route, but I've seen steady improvement over the months. Your replies are very encouraging, I feel like I'm on the right track and maybe close to another breakthrough.

I'll try 10 passes on my 8K, just guide the blade accross the surface, no pressure. Then I'll give it a healthy stropping, try a shave, and report my findings.

I'm pretty sure if it weren't for the help of the folks on this forum, I would never have picked up this wonderful hobby. Thank you!!

Alrighty, I've got some more news!

First off, I had another observation which the experience I had about 10 minutes ago reminded me of.

I notice the "sharpness" of my razor seems to follow a bell curve. Right off the hone it's rather catchy. The more I use it and strop it, the edge improves until it reaches a point where it begins to diminish. Once it feels like I just pulled it off my hone again, I put it back on the hone and the process repeats.

So I'm going to guess that this is a result of underhoning, and that the strops bring it up to speed to a certain point and then it wears off as one would expect. Also, my finest hone is the 8K side of my Norton. So I'm guessing that either my honing technique needs to improve (highly likely), or perhaps I need something a bit more fine for a finishing stone (very unsure about this).

Anyhow, on the shave!

10 Passes on the 8K, and 30 to 40 on linen and leather. The challenge today was a 4 day beard and the first thing I noticed was quite a bit of pulling. I corrected by focusing more on the scything stroke and that seemed to mitigate the pulling for the most part. I completed most of my wtg pass and notice my cutting power waning, so 30 more passes on the leather.

Focusing on technique really seemed to help a lot, once I got the edge polished back up I felt for rough spots and chased them down with very deliberate, calculated, scything, ATG strokes. When the razor started to hang up again, 30 more passes on leather.

I focused on my face mostly, my neck is kind of a disaster area and I think that's where most of the wear to my edge comes from.

Once the dust had settled and I put the razor down, I got out the cheap alcohol splash. This might be considered abuse by some, but for me it's instant notification of how I did. I did manage to get one small cut (from an aforementioned razor hangup) and that was reported instantly but the rest of my face actually didn't have much to say.

That was very exciting for me! I've gotten worse feedback from a brand new disposable razor.

So this is what I learned:

Technique Technique Technique
From the time lather met my face to applying an aftershave balm an hour had passed. Everything was very deliberate and without rush.

Stropping while shaving is a good thing!
I'm not sure why I was afraid to do this, but not anymore.

My razor is still not as sharp as it ought to be.
I think that I would be able to achieve similar results in a shorter amount of time if my razor were as sharp as it should be. So I need to figure out if I need to get some sort of finishing stone, or if I just need to practice more with my 8K. I havn't used any pastes and I'm sort of hesitant to do so, it sounds like you can do a lot of damage if you don't know what you're doing!



I know that the razor talks to me all the time, I just don't always understand what it's telling me. I know that with time I'll be able to speak it's language, and I think most important of all, HASTE MAKES WASTE!!! I was under the impression that you pros could probably still get a good shave with a "dull" razor, and after today I feel like I got a little taste of that.

Looking forward to your comments! And Thanks!

You might want to try giving it an extra hundred laps or so on the linen side of your strop and see if that gets you the extra sharpness you need.

Since you are experiencing a decline in the edge during shaving then for sure you need to go back to the hones. A finishing stone or paste will not do you any good at this point.

I would suggest you try the conservative pyramid first. The 8K is not going to do the trick, you need a few laps on the 4K also. Use the TPT frequently and shave test when there is a noticeable/definite change in the feel of the TPT.

Please perform an excellent beard prep so you can eliminate that variable.

Gotta go to my workshop now and work on building my belt grinders,

Do you always wait so long between shaves? It has always been harder for me to judge a blade with a full beard. All of you shave in my opinion needs to be consistent. Tony once said he didn't know why people waited so long to shave and test a new strop. Consistency, and patients are the key to this hobby. Read some more of the honing threads about scratches and use the advise Randy gave you.. Get that blade up a touch more, and you will not believe the changes.

Phil