Thread: Help on Honing

Well gents I thought I'd get in to honing. I bought two cheap razors to practice on my norton 4/8k. But I have a problem..One of my razors has a nick on it, its not very big but still, and I tried for quite some time to get it out but failed with the 4k side, it did get little better but still. I used both the Xpattern and circular motion. Should I continue to try to get it out. It may be that the 4k is too fine and just takes a lot longer, but i'm not going to get another stone yet so in this case I just have to keep trying.

My other razor is in good shape but its a wedge and it has a little bit of a smiling egde. The promblem with this is that I cant get it to stay flat on the stone surface. Any Ideas?

And the last question, if the stone is big enough to cover more than the blade do I need to do the X pattern or should i run the blade back and forth?

Thank you!

PS. Here's a pic of the blades

i feel your pain. i had a razor that had some strange damage near the toe and i tried for a while to get it to hone out with the 4k. i won't tell you that it won't come out but if it is a significant nick then the 1k (which i eventually bought) is a good investment. i have both the 4./8k combo and the 220/1000 combo and they are nice. like i said i believe that you can get the nick out with the 4k but it will take a while. you could use that as good honing technique practice time as one can never get enough of that.

as far as the Xpattern goes from what i have read it is a good idea to master. it isn't essential as a straight across technique will do the job but you tend to get a more even stroke on the bevel when doing the X. this is what i have read and what i have found (but i am pretty new) when looking at the blade under magnification. for me it was harder but once i got it it did make a big difference.

Originally Posted by Rawaz

Well gents I thought I'd get in to honing. I bought two cheap razors to practice on my norton 4/8k. But I have a problem..One of my razors has a nick on it, its not very big but still, and I tried for quite some time to get it out but failed with the 4k side, it did get little better but still. I used both the Xpattern and circular motion. Should I continue to try to get it out. It may be that the 4k is too fine and just takes a lot longer, but i'm not going to get another stone yet so in this case I just have to keep trying.

My other razor is in good shape but its a wedge and it has a little bit of a smiling egde. The promblem with this is that I cant get it to stay flat on the stone surface. Any Ideas?

And the last question, if the stone is big enough to cover more than the blade do I need to do the X pattern or should i run the blade back and forth?

Thank you!

PS. Here's a pic of the blades

You could try some wet/dry paper (1200grit) to get the nick out, it'll be faster than the 4K side of the Norton, if you try the wet/dry route be sure to have the wet/dry on a dead flat surface, and be sure the paper stays flat on the surface as I've had some trouble with wet/dry bunching up in front of the razor, in fact it lead me to getting a DMT 1200, but the wet/dry worked for a while.

You might want to take a look at Heavydutysg135 Progressive Straights Razor honing videos, especially part 9 The Rolling Hone stroke, as your wedge might have a slight warp to it.


The need for the x pattern have been discussed a few times in the past, I use it, or more precicley what I would call a modified x pattern/rolling hone stroke as most of my razors have a slight smile to them. IMHO learn the x pattern and use it regardless of the size of the stone.

My understanding (probably wrong, but I seem to recall this somehow) is that the x-pattern is preferable because it creates micro-serrations which help in cutting whiskers...I tried to find the reference in one of those old threads with the microscope cameras, but can't find it at the moment.

Mark

I noticed it now. The wedge razor is warped..hmm

The old barber books would always teach that the X pattern was the only way to hone a razor.
If you think about the process , the X will put a 45 degree scratch pattern on the bevel. You can clearly see it with a 10X loupe. Both side of the bevel will match and the teeth will point at 45 degrees, a bit like a wood saw.

As you shave, the teeth will saw the hairs off. Well that is the theory anyway.

This all sounds, but there was an article written were the razor edge was viewed under a very powerful microscope. The article noted that there are no teeth and so the X pattern is a waste of time.

You can make you're own mind up as there are conflicting opinions. But Microscopes don't lie and the pictures looked very impressive.

I think if you have a narrow hone, the X pattern makes sure you hone all the blade evenly.

If you have a wide (covers the whole edge) hone, I think the X pattern is probably superfluous.

I've tried both ways and to be honest, I can not tell the difference.

I find wide hones are useful for perfectly flat blades and narrow hones can iron out the lumps and bumps on some of the older razors.

Originally Posted by English

This all sounds, but there was an article written were the razor edge was viewed under a very powerful microscope. The article noted that there are no teeth and so the X pattern is a waste of time.

You can make you're own mind up as there are conflicting opinions. But Microscopes don't lie and the pictures looked very impressive.

Actually microscopes do "lie", in a sense that they do not always show everything that's there. This is due to the nature of light itself. It's a complicated matter, but the wavelength of visual light limits the size of the smallest detail you can possibly see through an optical microscope. You can magnify all you want beyond the point, but the scope just won't show you any more detail. This phenomenon is called "optical resolution" and the effects are very much in the realm of what we aim for during razor sharpening. The "popular mechanics" articles, written in the 30's if I recall correctly, although very interesting and worthwhile are suspect to make an error in that field. The magnification of those pictures is far beyond the typical resolution threshold of the used setup. That suggest very smooth curves near the edge, but it only appears as such. The actual truth could be very different. There's no telling from those pictures.

It is very unlikely that a hone leaves scratches on a hard steel surface and creates a perfectly continuous edge at the same time. All the more since that edge has a very acute angle, which will only lead to elongated spikes at the edge, formed by an intermittent pattern of scratch depths and scratch heights.

But this does not mean that English' conclusions are wrong.
Best regards,
Bart.

I definitley got a clearer picture on honing thanks guys. And the vids were great, I already feel I can master the blade on the hone much better by the way i hold it. As for the nick I'll just keep going til im done, and i will try the sandpaper trick.