Thread: Strange things afoot; something wrong with my techniques?

Okay, so I've been shaving with a straight razor and brush for about...I guess a year and a half now? It's practically the only thing I've ever shaved with. I get along fine, my face looks fine, feels good, shaves could be closer, nothing to complain about...
But I've finally gotten tired of a few things that I can't seem to get right, and one thing strange happened with my shave just now.

Okay, so my big thing is my brush and soap. I've got a Vulfix something or other, it's the one with the pewter handle, it's quite decent, so I've heard. All badger hair, of course. As far as soaps go, I've got two varieties of classic shaving's stuff and some of the bay and clove soap from thewellshavedgentleman. I have three razors...a Dovo HCS pearlex-handle, professionally honed, a wapienica from thewellshavedgentleman, obviously professionally honed, and an antique one I can't tell much from...it's got marks of "Blackhawk", "Solingen", and "Coast Barber Supply" repeated in various places on the razor and box. I honed it myself and it drags a little more than the others but if I shaved well the previous day it shaves competently. I have two strops, one is a new Chicago 206, the other is an antique family relic labelled "Imperial Koken Companies 221". I typically do 30 laps on the cotton side and 70 on the leather side. For honing, I have a 4000/8000 norton waterstone. When setting a bevel I usually alternate 4000 and 8000 in a 25/5/20/10/15/15/10/20/5/25 pattern. When touching up I usually do from 5 to 20 laps on the 8000, I go by feel. My shaving technique is to lather my whole face (I soak my facial hair in the shower beforehand), go straight down (pathwise, my actual cuts are somewhat scything) on the right side, re-apply lather to the left side (which by now is starting to break down slightly), go straight down on the left side, re-lather my whole face, go straight up on the right side, re-lather left side, go straight up on left side, wet alum block, rub on face, rinse face with cold water, towel off face.

Now, here is my main issue...everyone around seems to work up their lathers, by charging the brush with soap and then working up the lather in a bowl or cup with a small amount of water. But, no matter how much or how little water I use, I can never, ever, ever, work up anything vaguely resembling a lather that way, no matter how long I whip, how little or how much force I use, and no matter how little or how much glycerin I add. I've tried twice a week for most of the time I've shaved, changing things a little each time, and I never get anything more than bubbly water. I've also tried working it up in the palm of my hand and occasionally I'll get something creamy but it always breaks down into bubbly water after 15 seconds on my face. The only technique that works for me in any way is to work up the lather on top of the soap with a generous helping of glycerin. Nothing else even distantly comes close to working. As well, trying to refine lather on my face always just breaks it down faster no matter how much or how little force I use, same with water.
What exactly am I doing wrong? Keep in mind I've altered every variable several times a week for a whole year and nothing ever works.

Another strange thing that's happened, is I recently touched up the sharpness on my wapienica and my blackhawk. The wapienica I've used thrice so far and it's shaving fine, feels different, in an unexplainable way but shaves just as fine as ever. The Blackhawk I've used twice. The first time was fine, it never shaved better. But just now, I used it and it was absolutely horrible. It isn't dragging like it ever used to, not like my razors do when they're dull or insufficiently stropped, and yet it just wouldn't cut. It didn't drag but my face is still visibly stubbly and when I run my hand across it it feels exactly the same as it did before shaving. What happened? I even re-stropped in the middle of shaving and it did nothing. On one section of my face I even re-lathered and re-shaved no less than 4 times with no appreciable difference except a horrible case of razor burn, it still feels exactly the same as before shaving.

Another thing I've had problems with is shaving my neck. I keep seeing diagrams to shave left-right and right-left but no matter what angle I tilt my head I find it impossible to actually maneuver my razor around that way, it's hard enough to get every part of my neck just going up and down. Anyway, the main thing is my neck shaves are never as good as my cheek shaves and my neck will break out into severe razor burn if I apply the lightest pressure on my razor for even a second.

And finally, why is it that no matter how much attention I pay while honing, I still never get as close or easy a shave as when I use my shavette?

So these are my questions that I have, what am I doing wrong?

I also have a more general question: will shallow cuts (more like flaps) on a strop affect stropping?

I also have a small tip to give that I discovered on my own. As you work up lather on top of classic shaving soap, it starts to work up lather worse and worse until eventually it's impossible. If, at this point, you then put the soap in some boiling water, and let the soap itself boil for a minute or two, once it cools down, it starts working much better.

The lather issue might possibly be the hardness of your water. I had a Vulfix brush but found the bristles a bit too soft to build a proper lather (at least with a hard soap). I purchased two of Stephen's Woodworking brushes from Don and Lynn at Straight Razor Designs. What a difference in performance! The bristles are stiff enough to build and hold a nice lather.

You don't say exactly how you are building your lather. By inference it seems like you are trying to build the lather on your face. When I was doing that I would gently flick my brush once or twice after soaking it in hot water. Then I would get the soap on my brush and build the lather on my face.

I will be honest about soaps. I used the Classic Shaving soaps and had pretty much the same results you are having. I tried a few others and have settled on Colleen's (TGQ) soaps. Their scents are clean and natural. And the performance is the best I have experienced. A word of warning, do not microwave milled soaps to fit into a bowl. I have read in the forum that, if you want to fit them into a bowl, you should use a cheese grater and cut up the soap and press it into the bowl. I haven't done this so I can't agree or disagree. However, all agree that you can't microwave them.

Try some other soaps and see what works best for you. Mama Bear also has a big following here as well. Try hers. You might also want to consider using creams. Castle Forbes seems to be the concensus best cream on the market. But at $35 per tub it's not worth it to me. I know others do think it's worth it. TGQ has creams too. I am thinking of trying one of them myself.

The first problem you've got is starting a pargraph with "so my big thing is my brush and soap". So, since its really early let me try that one. The rest of the paragraph seems to ramble about all kinds of stuff.

It sounds like your original near success, building the lather directly on the soap cake is the right answer. Not using a different bowl.

The key, for you, I believe, is to squeeze all the water out of the brush. Do it like your strangling the brush to death. So, dip it in hot water, then strangle it.

After its been strangled spin it around in circles with pressure. Start adding water until you get cream. Just a few drops at a time. At some point you'll have a very heavy cream. You'll soon have the question "How do I add more water to the cream?" But, this time, you'll already know the answer.

Next, the neck should be shaved up and down. One pass down, then one pass up. Atleast that is what works for me.

BTW, I don't pay any attention to a lot of honing threads anymore but . . . usually a Norton 4/8 K progression is described with a ratio/fraction. Like 5/25, then 5/30, or whatever. So I have no idea what 25/5/20/10/15/15/10/20/5/25 really means. Could it be 25/5 20/10 5/15 0/20 5/25 ? And if so it doesn't make any sense, nor is it the right pattern. If you want you can PM me or call me tonight on my cell phone and I can walk you through this and other issues.

Man, so much. Ok, for the final question . . . its because paying attention to your honing isn't important, its doing it right that is important and because stropping is where the real sharpness comes from.

And then the question after the final question . . . yes, it will mess up your edge. remove them and sand them down so the razor passes over them without effect.

I must be really tired this morning. Your tip at the end of the post doesn't make any sense. Stop doing that. Just stop.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult.

I can't speak to your Shaving technique, but your soap technique? BOILING?

1. Get a good soap. Go for Tabac, it lathers like a dream and gives a great shave; a shave stick is also a good option. Rub it on yor face until you get a nice thin white layer, then work it with your fairly dry brush, dipping the bristles lightly into water when you need to. Valobra, Palmolive, Erasmic, La Toja, they are all good sticks. One thing--I hate to say it, but apart from Mama Bear and TGQ, none of the cottage industry soaps I've tried come anywhere near the big professional ones.

But for real soap problems--get a cream. There are tons of good ones. I love the Body Shop Maca Root cream; TOBS is also very good. for a cheaper ride, look for WARS or Lider from Poland. Then there's Palmolive, Dettol, etc. Try The Shave Den--they have original creams as well as imports. I also recommend Cella. Cella Crema is somewhere between creams and soaps, and it gives a great shave. Forget glycerin, get a cream.

Also, it sounds to me like you're overwatering your soap mixture--less water. You can always add more if your lather is too dry. Also, do you have hard water? That makes a difference, as well.

2. Like the man said, dry your brush and LOAD it. Load the crap out of it. Then, lather where you want. On the soap, on your face (I'ma face latherer), in a bowl--wherever works for you. Have you watched Mantic59's videos on Youtube? They can really help.

When you get a good lather, I imagine it will help your irritation problem--that's a good lather's job.

also have a small tip to give that I discovered on my own. As you work up lather on top of classic shaving soap, it starts to work up lather worse and worse until eventually it's impossible. If, at this point, you then put the soap in some boiling water, and let the soap itself boil for a minute or two, once it cools down, it starts working much better.

i had to read this slow i cant really add much to the advice you have been given but i have never heard of anybody boiling thier soap that cant be good..if the broblem is hard water try getting a gallon jug from the store, heat it and see if the soap lathers better

It seems everything in your post has been addressed except the problem with the razor you honed. It sounds like the blackhawk was over honed. When you over hone the edge gets way too thin and will crumble as you shave with it. This would account for you having a good shave the first time and a lousy one after that.

Keep in mind that different razors have different steels and thus hone differently. It's possible to do the exact same honing progression on two razors and have one shave fine and one fall apart on you.

If you want to try an inexpensive cream that seems to be popular here, try the Porasso cream. It is sold at Bath and Body works under the Bigalow name, they have a smaller size tube for $5.00. It sounds like you might be using too much water when you are trying to build a lather in a mug or bowl. I usually put a teaspoon or so of water on top of my soap and let it sit for a couple of minutes. After soaking the brush in warm water, give it a couple of flicks to get most of the water out. Load up the brush with the soap and then work on building the lather in the bowl.

+1 to Dward, If you have hard water try getting a gallon of spring water and see if that makes a difference.

On the lather I wouldn't be surprised if it is hard water. Watch these videos and see if applying the techniques doesn't help.

Sounds to me like you rolled the edge on the one razor when stropping. More videos on honing and stropping here. +1 on what AFDavis11said in regard to fixing the cuts on your strop.

Here are some more videos on honing. The series by Lynn and by Heavydutysg are very instructive.

Here is the honing section on the Wiki with a section on conservative and aggressive pyramids. Also bevel setting. If your not getting adequate results with what you are doing maybe giving them a re-read would help.

I suppose one thing I should clarify on the subject of boiling the soap...what I meant is, I put the mug, with the soap in it, into boiling water..no water actually gets on the soap, it's just a medium for conducting heat to the mug and thence the soap. This is also how I fit my glycerin soaps into mugs (can't say if it works for milled soaps because I've never used them.) I suspect the reason boiling works for me is because I usually let a small amount of hot water sit on top of the soap while I shower, and I suspect it's being absorbed the soap somewhat and watering it down. Boiling the soap, it would appear to be me, distills the soap somewhat and removes the excess water that had built up and was preventing a lather from forming.

Hard water, hmm? Well. How are Brita filters for shaving purposes?
Also, I will try sanding off the flap on my strop.
I also do not think that I'm using too much water, I quite often end up with very dry lathers, I've mixed up my variables to run the gamut between flaky dry and bubbly-water wet and every degree of variation between and still get the same results.

But, thank you all, for your generous help. I will look into water filters and better soaps.