Thread: How many strokes for initial honing/sharpening?

Definite irony to my name, but I am looking to change that!

When honing a new razor, how many strokes should you need to do on your sharpening stone? From what I read, 'shave ready' is not truly shave ready.

Once honed and moving onto stropping, should it just be the 10 strokes on the cloth side then 25 on the leather side?

Also, how often and when do you use the strop conditioner?

What else could I be doing wrong?

I can't seem to get my straight edge sharp enough! I have been using a 'disposable' straight edge for years and can't seem to get my new razor sharp enough to get the same smooth action I get out of my disposable. After honing, and stropping, (several times now) it still feels like it is pulling out my whiskers as opposed to slicing through them. I do not want to ruin my beautiful razor, so here I am. HELP!

I have spent good $ on getting all the right tools to do the job (see below). I have done my homework (i.e.: spent hours online watching vids and reading how tos), so I appologize if the answer is on this site because I could not find it.

What I have:
- a beautiful NEW 5/8" Dovo Solingen straight edge.
- a new strop & strop conditioner
- Arkansas stone
- AND (after doing more research online) a combo 4000/8000 wetstone.

A real straight razor will have a different feel than your disposable, even at its sharpest.
The strop conditioner isn't usually needed at all, and can do more harm than good, especially if you overdo it. Try 20 strokes on canvas and 30 strokes on the leather. (One stroke is up and back.)
+1 to everything Old School said.

Welcome!

Definitely send it out to the get honed by someone here, you can't go wrong with that. And do what OLD_SCHOOL suggests also (if you want to spend the money on it) and get yourself a cheaper razor to practice on. You could also check out the classifieds section on this site, they have a lot of razors for sale, both shave-ready and not.

For honing yourself, I would read up on the wiki, Beginner's Guide to Honing - Straight Razor Place Wiki is a good place to start . And about stropping, as long as you do it correctly (also information on that on the wiki) you can't go wrong with a few more laps. I typically do about 30 laps on the linen/canvas then 60 leather. And about the strop paste, it's only used when the strop isn't supple enough. It usually isn't necessary for a new strop, what kind did you buy?

I hope that help answer some of your questions. Good luck!

Dave

I would also suggest you increase your stropping. More stropping (with correct technique) will never hurt, and can only help. Most people, if they use the linen side are doing 30 laps or so, then 60 or more on the leather.

I usually start with about that, and once I reach it I quit counting and just keep going until I feel like stopping. I would guess I end up with 50 or so on linen and 75-100 on the leather.

Sending your first razor out for honing is inconvenient, but a good idea.
J.

the number of strokes depends on how dull the blade is - the duller the blade, the more the strokes. so the first problem i see is that you lack the experience to evaluate how dull your razor is. if you did you wouldn't really asking this question, so it's a catch-22.
so in the absence of somebody who can teach you hands on, it's a trial and error.
the best i can suggest is do the pyramid approach and monitor the progress.
i assume you've watched the various videos online.
lack of a benchmark is a serious detriment in my opinion, but the only way to solve this is to have somebody hone this or another razor for you.

the good news is that eventually most of us get the hang of it, so it's basically a matter of dedicating enough time and effort.

Yes, sending your good Dovo off to have someone experienced hone it is the very best failsafe way to get a shave worthy blade and know exactly what you need to strive for in your own honing. However, you’ve bought stones. Money aside, you obviously want to learn how to do it yourself. Or maybe you don’t have money to throw around in the long run, none of us “out here” know what your situation is. Send it off is still ideal, but if you do it yourself you will still figure this out. As the Wiki says, Do not start unless you bring sufficient time and patience. Learning can take a while, especially if you don’t have the reference razor. Read up on taping the spine of your blade. The tape gives you lea way for boo-boo’s as you learn, not to mention keeping your razor pretty. With it I feel you will be somewhat hard pressed to destroy your blade as you make your mistakes, just don’t apply much pressure at any point. Forget about the Arkansas stone, use it for your pocket knives. I am assuming you got a Norton 4000/8000 waterstone. Unless you are resetting bevels, the Norton will be all you need. Start with the 4000 side. I don’t count laps, I just do it till it’s done – whole lot of help that is! I hesitate to reference the honing pyramids because I feel they are way too conservative, but that makes them a safe place to start if you are not getting results. (Norton Pyramid Honing Guide Wiki) Just bump the numbers up and do it again. One of the redo’s will leave you saying “Oh, that’s what they were talking about…”. You will still refine from there, but you’ll see progress. I would also suggest adding a step using a paddle strop pasted with .5 micron Chromium Oxide. It will make it very cheap and VERY easy to step from 8000 grit to shave worthy. In theory a stone is better, but the stone requires a high skill level that will take much more time to acquire. Get the pasted strop and start happy shaving immediately. Yes, you still need the normal un-pasted stropping before every shave.

This is fantastic... I can't believe all the detailed replies! I will take all of your advice. Cheers!

Welkom SharpOttawaGuy,

I would first concentrate on learning how to shave with a sharp razor and then get to the honing part of the fun.

So +1 on Oldschool and if you buy an eBay special to learn how to hone... Do not buy a wedge!! They are not easy to hone! (I'm learning that the hardway... still having fun with that BTW)

So good luck and have fun... and remember all bleeding stops... eventually...

Maarten

I use an Arkansas stone for knife sharpening but it's to coarse for a straight razor. You need a 3000 grit and an 8000 grit for these blades. That Arkansas stone is about 600 at most.

I didn't notice your thread until after I had replied to your PM, SharpOttawaGuy, so I guess you can omit the list of what's in your straight razor arsenal when you get back to me.

It definitely looks like you've got everything you need to begin (minus a shave-ready razor, of course). The fact you're used to shaving with a "disposible straight" is good news also. A huge impediment for the majority of people that are new to this is the frustration that comes with learning to shave all over again; but you've already developed the muscle memory, which will be a big help to you. You know how to dance...you've just got to learn a few new steps.

The Norton, the razor and the strop. That's all you need to get rollin'.

It's tough to learn how to hone by watching videos or by pouring over even the most detailed advice, since you're missing that tactile element you need to really understand. Kind of like when Mr. Miagi scoffed at Daniel for trying to learn Karate from a book. Reading up on it has probably made you familiar with the main principles, though. But as someone else mentioned, just about every razor you'll hone will be different from the one before it. Wedge or hollow ground... stainless or carbon... a "smiling" (ie. curved) blade, which often requires a careful distribution of pressure on the stone. Etc, etc.