Thread: NOOBY ALMOST READY TO BUY HONES HELP

Originally Posted by gunslingor

I think it's probably more of an aspergers syndrome; it runs in the family. It's funny. I am good at artistic things and I am good at scientific methodical things. But when you try and combine the two, I always have a problem.

Got another question!
I think the suggestion to go to a honemaster is probably a good one. Okay, where do I find them? I would, ideally, like to bring it in and watch the process if possible. I am in chattanooga TN. I searched honemaster on google. All I found were machine shop type places. Is this where I need to go? My intuition says no.

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

However, no reason you can't do this with a 3" stone as well.

With a 3" stone the end (toe) of the blade is always in contact with the hone, and thus gets more wear compared to the heel which is only in contact for a very short time if you are using an X-stroke. People have said this does not cause problems if you use a rolling motion to vary pressure, but why work around a problem when you can eliminate it completely by using a smaller width stone?

Why do you hone with the blade leading?

I'm not certain, but I think you are less likely to get a burr when you lead with the blade edge(*). Burrs are a good indicator of sharpness for some knife edges, telling you it's time to move on to a finer grit. But on straight razors burrs are a no-no.

(*) During honing metal is stripped off as you hone. But this loose metal can be deposited back onto the blade!!! If you hone edge first these deposits happen away from the edge where they can do no harm. But if you have the edge trailing the deposits can be on the edge, ruining the straightness and maybe forming a burr. The Verhoeven paper explains this. http://mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www...nifeShExps.pdf

It seems likely to this author that two mechanisms give rise to bur formation along the edge during sharpening.
(1) Debris Deposit The polishing and grinding on the metal faces of a knife blade during sharpening produces an abrasive polishing action. One may think of this action as like having thousands of little ploughs (abrasive particles) that move along the surface pushing scraped up metal, debris, in front of them. If the abrasion direction is away-from the edge, direction A of Fig. 3, then the debris will be deposited along the edge on the face opposite the face being abraded. If the abrasion direction is into the edge, direction I of Fig. 3, one would not expect debris pile-up along the edge as now it is being pushed away from the edge. However, as will be shown later, debris does collect at the edge for abrasion in the I direction, although to a reduced extent. here must be a subtle mechanism of debris deposit along the edge, perhaps involving some type of back eddies at the edge.

Te red bumps may also be indicative to PFB (pseudofolliculitis barbae) in which the follicles begin to grow under the skin. This is a link for general recognition and care of mild symptoms: Pseudofolliculitis barbae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia however it is advised that you seek professional care for moderate to severe symptoms.


My very first contribution!

Originally Posted by jmueller8

Te red bumps may also be indicative to PFB (pseudofolliculitis barbae) in which the follicles begin to grow under the skin. This is a link for general recognition and care of mild symptoms: Pseudofolliculitis barbae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia however it is advised that you seek professional care for moderate to severe symptoms.


My very first contribution!

I get those from Mach 3 but never from a straight.

[quote=Rajagra;325100]With a 3" stone the end (toe) of the blade is always in contact with the hone, and thus gets more wear compared to the heel which is only in contact for a very short time if you are using an X-stroke. People have said this does not cause problems if you use a rolling motion to vary pressure, but why work around a problem when you can eliminate it completely by using a smaller width stone?[quote]

Hmm. I think the way to do it would be to start on one end of the 3" stone with the blade hanging off the stone at the half way mark. Then, when the stroke is completed, the blade should have the other half hanging off the opposite end of the stone. This should produce an even stroke. Am I wrong?

You definitely seem to know your stuff.

Based on your avitar, I think you are the ideal person to ask this. Let me ask, how long do you think I should shave my face with the straight edge before moving to my head? I actually baught the razor specifically for my head, but I am getting a great deal of pleasure just on the face; I think I'll always use it for both now.

SRP classifieds has all of us on here listed... Take yer pick !!!!

[quote=Rajagra;325100]With a 3" stone the end (toe) of the blade is always in contact with the hone, and thus gets more wear compared to the heel which is only in contact for a very short time if you are using an X-stroke. People have said this does not cause problems if you use a rolling motion to vary pressure, but why work around a problem when you can eliminate it completely by using a smaller width stone? [quote]

THIS IS YOUR OPINION AND MOST IF NOT ALL THE HONEMIESTERS, ON THIS SITE WOULD DISAGREE I mean no disrespect here but you do not need to use a rolling x on a straight edge blade to not cause un-even toe wear you just need to use a nice even stroke. Thinner stones are an advantage when honing smiling and warped blades where you do need to use specialized strokes to compensate on a wide hone...... THIS is JMHO and a whole lot of honing....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

THIS IS YOUR OPINION AND MOST IF NOT ALL THE HONEMIESTERS, ON THIS SITE WOULD DISAGREE I mean no disrespect here but you do not need to use a rolling x on a straight edge blade to not cause un-even toe wear you just need to use a nice even stroke.

I will bow to your greater experience. BUT ... logically speaking, if you use a nice even stroke, then the part of the blade that spends most of the time on the hone (the toe) will get worn away quicker. It's hard to see what mechanism could possibly prevent this. Maybe it's a problem that will only show after years of honing the same blade, but I think it is there. Most of us have seen old razors on auction that are thin at the end, and I think it's quite obvious how they got that way.

Anyway, the important point is this ... most people new to honing (myself included) will probably start by assuming a "full size" 3 inch hone is better than a narrower one. Would you agree that that is a false assumption? That narrower hones (such as most traditional barber hones) can be just as good if not better?

Originally Posted by gunslingor

Hmm. I think the way to do it would be to start on one end of the 3" stone with the blade hanging off the stone at the half way mark. Then, when the stroke is completed, the blade should have the other half hanging off the opposite end of the stone.

On most razors the "shoulder" would make it difficult to do that, and once the scales trespass on the hone that would normally make further adjustment in that direction impossible. Maybe something like that is possible with some razors though.

Based on your avitar, I think you are the ideal person to ask this. Let me ask, how long do you think I should shave my face with the straight edge before moving to my head?

That pic is quite old, done before I got into straight razors, and I now have hair on my head. But I hear that shaving the head with a straight can be more tricky than the face in some ways. If you do a forum search I think there are a few posts on the subject.

Originally Posted by Rajagra

I will bow to your greater experience. BUT ... logically speaking, if you use a nice even stroke, then the part of the blade that spends most of the time on the hone (the toe) will get worn away quicker. It's hard to see what mechanism could possibly prevent this. Maybe it's a problem that will only show after years of honing the same blade, but I think it is there. Most of us have seen old razors on auction that are thin at the end, and I think it's quite obvious how they got that way.

Actually I truly believe that the hard toe wear was caused by a lifting improper stoke used on barber's hones in the first place. If you watch someone who doesn't know the proper use, hone on a barbers hone or really any hone, you will see them lift that toe away until you correct them... Whether that is true I don't know for sure, but man it sure seems to fit...

Anyway, the important point is this ... most people new to honing (myself included) will probably start by assuming a "full size" 3 inch hone is better than a narrower one. Would you agree that that is a false assumption? That narrower hones (such as most traditional barber hones) can be just as good if not better?

As good in the right hands and in the right usage YES... Better, NO, I would not go that far..... Again a narrow hone has it's place in the honing arsenal but it is harder for a newbie to master the proper stoke to use it...The margin for error is much greater on a narrow hone IMHO...