Thread: SEVERAL questions after my first shave

Ok, well I had my first straight razor shave tonight, It was from a Fromm Red Head that I bought out of the classifieds, that was "shave ready". It looks great. My shave however was short, very painful, and bloody. I have been shaving with a DE razor for about a year or more, so I feel like my beard prep is very up to par, so I dont think that is why the shave was bad. When I used the razor, I could feel it really pulling on the hairs during the stroke, and it was painful. I am confused, I am not sure if the razor was not honed to be sharp enough, if I didnt strop it correctly, or if my shaving technique was just bad. Either way, I am not dying to get back in there for another try, knowing that the razor is not going to glide through the hairs like I was hoping it would. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. I am not wanting to throw in the towel this soon, but if the razor was not sharp this time, I am assuming it is going to be just as dull next time, unless some stroping will really bring the edge back to a razor.

Can a razor that is shave ready from the hone still feel dull and pull on hairs, if the stroping is done incorrectly?? When would one know to go back to the hone, or when to work on stroping technique, when a razor is not shaving nicely?

Secondly, I need to know if I need to buy a new strop or not. I bought a nice Russian Dovo leather strop on classic shaving a while back, and never used it. It ended up sitting in a closet for a year or so, and formed a nice crease in the middle of the leather from being folded over. I have tried to smooth it out, with limited success. I do not know how perfect a strop has to be to successfully prep the razor. Any advice?? I can see as I draw the razor over the strop, that the cutting edge does not completely lie flat on the leather, because the leather is not perfectly flat, unless I press the razor into the strop with some force, but I have read that pressure on razor, while gliding over the strop is bad. Does this mean that my strop is ruined, and it is time to buy a new one? I am not sure if my razor is dull because my stropping technique is bad, or if my strop is ineffective in its use.

Lastly, what is the minimum amount of equipment needed to do ones own honing? I read about people having a 4K8K, a chinese 12K, then a four sided pasting strop, with different grits, and so one. All I have is a Norton 4K8K, and I am wondering if that is all I really need to keep my razors up to full sharpness, or if it would be worth investing in some more equipment?

if a razor comes to you shave ready its best to not strop it for the first shave that way you know if you roll the edge through stropping. this is what it sounds like to me. note for the future if the razor pulls and you begin bleeding stop shaving don't continue and torcher your face. Most of the honemasters will rehone a razor for free if its not up to par give the guy you got it from a holler and he will probably fix it up.

Welcome to SRP, Dustin,

I would encourage you to read Beginner's guide to straight razor shaving - Straight Razor Place Wiki. It has most answers to your questions.

Originally Posted by DustinNielsen

Can a razor that is shave ready from the hone still feel dull and pull on hairs, if the stroping is done incorrectly?? When would one know to go back to the hone, or when to work on stroping technique, when a razor is not shaving nicely?

It can, cf. Razor stropping - Straight Razor Place Wiki. There are several sharpness tests available, most of which are used for testing sharpness during honing, though, cf. Sharpness tests explained - Straight Razor Place Wiki. Ultimately, the shave test is the only test that will reliably for you.

Originally Posted by DustinNielsen

Secondly, I need to know if I need to buy a new strop or not. I bought a nice Russian Dovo leather strop on classic shaving a while back, and never used it. It ended up sitting in a closet for a year or so, and formed a nice crease in the middle of the leather from being folded over. I have tried to smooth it out, with limited success. I do not know how perfect a strop has to be to successfully prep the razor. Any advice?? I can see as I draw the razor over the strop, that the cutting edge does not completely lie flat on the leather, because the leather is not perfectly flat, unless I press the razor into the strop with some force, but I have read that pressure on razor, while gliding over the strop is bad. Does this mean that my strop is ruined, and it is time to buy a new one? I am not sure if my razor is dull because my stropping technique is bad, or if my strop is ineffective in its use.

A strop needs to be perfectly smooth. Not necessarily flat. I have a Tony Miller Vegan that is not flat, but still the entire razor edge makes contact during a pass because of the x motion used for stropping (take a look at our stropping videos). Yours obviously is the same, and will never be completely flat again. You might be able to reduce the fold, though. A picture of the damage would be useful in any event.

Applying pressure when stropping is a certain path to ruining your razor's edge, and I second Doc's advice to have it professionally honed again.

Originally Posted by DustinNielsen

Lastly, what is the minimum amount of equipment needed to do ones own honing? I read about people having a 4K8K, a chinese 12K, then a four sided pasting strop, with different grits, and so one. All I have is a Norton 4K8K, and I am wondering if that is all I really need to keep my razors up to full sharpness, or if it would be worth investing in some more equipment?

If the only task you want to perform is refreshing edges that have previously been established by a honemeister (the process is often refered to as "touching up" on SRP), you need only get a fine grit finishing stone or a barber's hone for this. Either of these hones can keep your razor(s) shave ready for years. (cf. What hone(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki)

I'm a fellow newb, so I don't feel I can answer a lot of your questions. However, let me just say that your experience is very common and it gets much better!

For me there was a lot of anticipation and buildup for that first shave. I spent a decent chunk of change on equipment, researched a bit, expected so much, and got such poor results. The blade skipped across the skin, pulling and tugging with very little cutting. So disappointing and I felt a bit foolish for wasting so much time and money.

Your results are almost certainly based on poor technique. I know in my case the critical areas I screwed up were blade angle, pressure, and skin stretching. The spine needs to be about 1-1/2 spine's width from the skin for with the grain passes (for against the grain it needs to be lower still). You should need almost no pressure at all, for heavier blades the weight of the blade alone is enough. The first time I got it right, the "aha" light went off over my head... very smooth, comfortable cutting.

Others here will have to chime in on whether you need a new strop. A picture of the crease will help. You could try to lower it with a pumice stone or sandpaper, but it sounds like it is contributing to razor damage. The good news is quality newbie strops can be had for relatively cheap ($30 or so) from several sources. Also definitely sounds like you're using too much pressure. You need a slight amount of pressure to strop correctly, but I think most beginners use too much.

If that crease is significant, it also sounds like you've likely damaged the edge. Proper stropping *may* bring it back to life. The difficulty is as a new guy its hard to know when you're stropping is *right* or just contributing to the damage... frusturating I know, I'm with you. Best would be to send your razor off for honing services which will cost you $15 plus shipping, many honers will work with newbs and offer to rehone for free if you screw up the edge after the initial hone.

Cheers,

- HJ

If it hurts, stop, as something is not right.

When you work out the kinks and get it right, you'll be hooked-- I used to hate shaving, as my cartridge razor felt awful on my face, but the straight feels awesome and shaves so much better. +1 on scouring the wiki, and watching stropping videos.

-Chief

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Applying pressure when stropping is a certain path to ruining your razor's edge, and I second Doc's advice to have it professionally honed again.

but you do need to apply *some* pressure, right? the wiki is not very helpful on this subject....

Originally Posted by MuzzleVelocity

but you do need to apply *some* pressure, right? the wiki is not very helpful on this subject....

Right. But it's a Wiki. You are hereby cordially invited to amend it along the lines of "General consensus is that you should not apply more pressure than the razor's own weight."

One problem that I think a lot of new straight shavers have is improper blade angle. It's one thing to read "approximately 30 degrees" and another to put it in practice when you are holding a straight to your face or neck. My suggestion is to give your face a day or two to settle down (assuming you have some razor rash) and try again while paying more attention to the angle of the blade. You should also start out by shaving only the sides of your face i.e., sideburn to jawline, until you feel that you are getting a pretty smooth and comfortable shave.

I would start out with the spine of the razor pretty close to your skin, maybe one spine width away. Remember, you are trying to cut the whiskers, not scrape them off. You can increase the angle as you wish until you find what seems optimum in terms of closeness and comfort. Sometimes I angle the blade slightly from heel to toe or vice versa to facilitate the cutting action. You also want to control the speed of your stroke. Too slow and it will probably pull at the whiskers, too fast and the same will happen with the added increased risk of a cut.

The other possibility is that your "shave ready" blade isn't sharp enough. There are tests to check that, starting with whether or not you got it from someone who knows his or her way around a hone.

Good luck. Everyone here is willing to help you, so don't be shy about making some follow up posts.

One more thing....Welcome to SRP!