Thread: Celluloid Rot

Hi all! I've been lurking in the corner for about about two months reading the wealth of information on this site every night and researching straight razor shaving ad nauseum. Thank all of you for contributing to the beginner's experience and knowledge for old-fashioned shaving.

I am still working on identifying the finer points of what is a "good buy" at antique stores and Ebay when the razors are not on the "wish list" of Dovo, W&B, Torrey, etc. I am very familiar with the don't buy wiki and have a pretty good hunch when it comes to identifying the undesireable mass-manufactured ones available. However, I want to make sure I can identify defects when they are visible. I attached a picture to this post (I hope it uploaded). Can someone tell me if this looks to be an example of celluloid rot? I understand it to be contagious, and I think that explains some of the patterns inconsistent with the rest of the scales.

Thanks!

It definitely doesn't look promising -- but to really tell you, we'd have to have pictures of the blades opened. If the rusting is only on part of the blade that is outside of the scales, it could just be from a wet environment...but if the rust is attacking the portion of the blade inside..then its likely cell rot.

Multi-color and translucent scales like the ones in your picture are even more known for cellrot than solid colors

You can't tell by looking at the scales. You need to look at the blade and any signs of corrosion where it sits in the scales. I've had celluoid that looked brand spanking new and it was rotting and damaging the blade. Its only when it is really advanced that you can start to see it. Often times by then you will get kind of a Vinnegar smell.

Thank you for the responses. If that's the case, is the scarring on the left-most blade in the picture most likely caused by an external influence, such as abrasive/hot liquid, spilled cleanser (i.e. not a natural result of using celluloid?)

Actually, celluloid rot can also cause rusting of only the part of the blade outside of knife handles. It might also be the same way with razor scales.

Jeff

I would like to help you more … but I have read your post over and over and I am still a bit confused.
You say you upload a photo, and ask if it appears to be cell rot… at this point one would expect a photo with a single razor (and of course opened).
But I see one photo of what appears to be the butt ends of 4 different razors… and worse they are closed.
I may be right or I may be wrong but I will attempt a diagnosis with what little info given to me.

Left to right
The first one (#1) I believe the scale is in an advanced state of decay, I have an example of a razor with a spot on the scales that has decayed and crystallized in a similar way, and the spot on the blade directly beneath it (when closed) has rusted completely through to the other side and is crumbling away… in fact I can just make out the blade on #1 has rust on the blade in the shape of the lighter color on that scale.

The other 3 razors I would say they do have the rot but appear to be in much less advanced state and may be in much better physical condition, than #1.
Razors #2, 3, and 4 Razor you can see “spotting” on the blade face near the spine (that’s all I can see because the blades are closed), this is seen better in #3 because the position of the camera allow the light to reflect so it appears more pronounced.

Also look at the nickel silver pins; they are tarnished on all the razors.

A final note…
Celluloid, from the moment it is manufactured slowly relies an acidic gas and camphor vapor (but the camphor is not what causes the rust); it is the acidic gas (an oxide of Nitrogen) that rusts the blade. However the conditions under which the razor is stored is a big factor in how fast that gas is released. Generally higher temperatures encourage the gas to come out faster.
If the gas is released from the celluloid slowly, the gas will have time to disperse into the atmosphere (even in an enclosed box) and the blade after many long years may not have more than superficial patina on the surface and is easily polished. So of you have a blade with celluloid scales and a little patina (no rust or pits), you may not have to worry much, the gas may be coming out too slowly to start rusting the blade… polish and be happy.
However if conditions are such that the gas is released at a faster rate, it will become concentrated in the box (or whatever container it is presently in), and surely, the steel will rust.

Unless the rot is in an advanced state (most of the gas is released) to the point that the scale becomes brittle or crystallize it is almost impossible to tell how fast the gas is coming out of the celluloid… you may look at the condition of the blade and the stains will give you an idea, so it is a bad idea to buy a razor if you cannot see it opened… would you buy a car without first sitting in the driver’s seat?

If you already have a razor with a few spots of tarnish and you are not sure if the rot is advanced, then first polish up the blade, wash and properly dry with paper towel, but do not oil (yet), snap a few photos and put it away in a razor box for a few months and check it once a week or so. If the blade has any sort of stain or patina within a month or two, then the gas is coming out fast… it has the rot. However if after a month or two it is still shiny and pretty as the day you polished it (compare to photo you snapped a month ago) then the gas is coming out slow… scales are good (for now), you can now use the razor or oil the blade for long term storage (if you are a collector).

I hope this helps.

Is there a theoretical fixed lifespan for celluiod before it "rots"? Would it be the case that only a subset of celluiod scales would rot, while others would remain stable indefinately?

-Chief

There are different types of celluloid. Celluloid Nitrate, Celluloid Acetate. I'm not sure all of them off gas or if they do that they would all off gas at the same rate. From the reading I've done, I know celluloid nitrate can release acidic gas faster than it otherwise would when subject to heat.

Chris L

Thanks for all of the detailed information. My initial understanding was that cell rot was mostly a problem with the scales but the real concern is what it does to the blade. I wasn't looking to acquire the razors in the picture, just trying to identify cell rot so I could recognize it when I see it. Now I understand the blade condition is critical to identifying this malady.

Thanks again!

I've never experienced this phenomenon but have read conflicting views on whether or not it is contagious. Of those who have experienced it, what do you think?