Thread: Stropping only on pasted strops

Originally Posted by jimmyh

Thanks for the responses.



You mean pasted strop then unpasted strop for 10 shaves then repeat and after a while you only get 4 shaves between pasted strops?

I'm having a hard time seeing what could be going on there, but if you do a couple passes on the pasted strop each time, then it doesn't matter if the edge can make it 'only 4 shaves'.

I'm sorry! I use a leather hanging strop before every shave, 70 laps. When you only get about 4 shaves between using the pasted strop, you have to drop back to the 8EE. I am talking about 8 or 10 laps on the 8K and 10 or less on each of the diamond steps. The diamond plate cuts pretty quickly. Eventually even taking it down to an 8k will not help much so you have to send it out and have the bevel reset, but that will be many months down the road, probably a year. If you use the 8k after about 10 or 15 shaves then longer than a year and would guess years. By the standards a lot of these guys have this is a very crude setup, but it works!, I have done it. This is a dirt cheap way to use a razor and still get very good quality edges.

If you are going to be straight shaving as a life style you will have to get and use some good hones. I bought a Coticule which will let you reset a bevel if it is not to far gone otherwise you have to go to a 1K stone,which I also bought. The point is that, in the beginning, stones that drop down to 4K or 1K are not needed by the beginner and will probably cause damage in the wrong hands.

My two cents.

A lot depends on technique. Watch carefully and follow your hand as you strop. Then follow the blade itself. How does the blade set on the strop before you start? Does your hand lift the blade slightly on edge as you finish a stroke or does it remain flat? Does the whole blade cross the leather with each stroke? Is each pass just like the last one? Do your strokes vary between each pass? Do you notice a negative difference in your razor when you rush the stropping? Do you give the strop too much give, is it too taut when you strop? Do you use quality leather? Is the leather supple or dried out?

Pastes on leather, in a way, turn a strop into a hone. Improper stropping can help create a concave in the blade and round out the tip on the razor with bad technique, add pastes to the strop and it quickens the damage.

IMHO,there is in no need of strop pastes, I do not know when abrasive pastes were invented, but if they were not needed 200 years ago, they are not needed today. The use of pastes may have been made for those who did not have quality hones, the paste served their purpose well and keep up a quality they were happy with. Heck, a lot of people use strops for their pocket knives and such, and they do not own a razor.

Not addressing and fixing ones consistent mistakes in stropping will lead to having to hone more often than would be needed.

I have not noticed a need to hone a blade often that was stropped properly. As we know, honing cuts the blade, too much or too often will shorten the life of a blade.

All this leads to the advice of having several blades in ones rotation. This will help preserve each razor.

Being methodical and observant will save a razor.

My Dutch 1910 barbers' manual recommends you sharpen French razors with knot free wood pasted with ceolite (e.g. pate Hamon) and strop them on leather. Hones were only used for damaged edges.

Originally Posted by Junkyard

Pastes on leather, in a way, turn a strop into a hone. Improper stropping can help create a concave in the blade and round out the tip on the razor with bad technique, add pastes to the strop and it quickens the damage.

IMHO,there is in no need of strop pastes, I do not know when abrasive pastes were invented, but if they were not needed 200 years ago, they are not needed today. The use of pastes may have been made for those who did not have quality hones, the paste served their purpose well and keep up a quality they were happy with. Heck, a lot of people use strops for their pocket knives and such, and they do not own a razor.

This is exactly the type response that we always get on SRP as I said "We" tend to be a "HONE is God" forum and the use of pastes tends to be looked down upon...See the blue section, we use a slightly condescending tone, like using pastes is somehow a bad thing... (no offense intended here Junkyard you were just proving my earlier point)

Although I do tend to agree with the thinking here, I am not quite as convinced as I once was about this line of thinking....

Just for reference the first pastes were used 200+ years ago, it was called ash... and is still rather effective, so is lamp black we just use other things now...

I just started a experimental run on a razor when this thread started ....

I personally think the use of pastes for honing at anything other than a very fine polishing stage is a relatively new phenomena. Industrial diamonds like the ones in our diamond paste did not exist in the heyday of the straight razor, in fact being able to get the very fine powders we use in a consistent grit would probably have been impossible. This method hasn't been explored and is looked down upon because it is a completely new area. I've seen the skepticism of the scary sharp method from both razor an woodworking guys, I still see it, even though the method works, and well. I don't think the skepticism here is because of class consciousness but more fear of the new. I mean seriously if some Victorian farmer couldn't afford a chunk of rock where was he going to get diamond dust suspended in fine oil to do the same job.

Kees...

Would you give more information about ceolite? In my searching, I suspect it is the same as zeolite, which is available from pet supply stores for use in aquariums or cat litter.

Zeolite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Zeolites are microporous, aluminosilicate minerals commonly used as commercial adsorbents... Some of the more common mineral zeolites are analcime, chabazite, clinoptilolite, heulandite, natrolite, phillipsite, and stilbite. An example mineral formula is: Na2Al2Si3O10-2H2O, the formula for natrolite.

Am I close? And, what is Pate Hamon... can't find that either.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is exactly the type response that we always get on SRP as I said "We" tend to be a "HONE is God" forum and the use of pastes tends to be looked down upon...

I agree with that Glen. I was definitely one of those who had mixed feelings about paste. Not for others but for myself. Intellectually I knew that it is another abrasive just as a hone is a bound abrasive whether natural of synthetic.

Emotionally I think the fact that I tried to learn to hone razors and failed twenty five years ago made me feel that using paste was somehow a shortcut. I felt that if the old timers could get them with the hones alone that I too should be able to do so.

Now I've come to the conclusion that those old boys got them as sharp as could be gotten on the hones but not as sharp as can be gotten with paste. The sharpest razors I've gotten were finished with diamond paste. If I were honing for others I would definitely finish with the paste on balsa.

I'm beginning to do that for myself. I'm finding there is a learning curve with this as well. I still have to get the razor to a level of sharpness with the hones that I can improve with the pastes so it isn't "cheating" after all the way I see it now.

Originally Posted by Junkyard

IMHO,there is in no need of strop pastes, I do not know when abrasive pastes were invented, but if they were not needed 200 years ago, they are not needed today.

See also my post above. I cannot get my TI Silverwing shave-sharp without cromium oxide paste. I honed about 50 razors with good results using hones only but the TI is an exception. TI recommend their paddle strop for maintenance: one side pasted leather, the other side plain leather.

TI recently changed the steel they use. Maintenance recommendations are adapted to the needs of the tool to be maintained and vice versa. So that may explain why pastes may be a better choice this day and age for modern razors.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I agree completely, Glen. I never bought into the argument that a pasted edge needs more attention to keep it keen than a honed edge. I'm not saying that I don't believe that necessarily, my argument to that is that I don't see increased maintenance as a serious detraction. My pasted paddles are easily accessible. A few passes on them to refresh more often that a re-hone, I don't see the downside.

I'm experimenting a ton with pastes right now and intend on exploring it a bunch more. I'm still cautious on how I feel about pastes in general (other than chrome ox which for me is a proven ingredient in my honing process) but time will solidify my experiences with the pastes.

Chris L

Chris,

Lemme know if, for the sake of science, you want a bunch of Picassos to annoint with your test pastes. They are a snap to make so long as I have the scrap materials.

Originally Posted by Kees

See also my post above. I cannot get my TI Silverwing shave-sharp without cromium oxide paste. I honed about 50 razors with good results using hones only but the TI is an exception. TI recommend their paddle strop for maintenance: one side pasted leather, the other side plain leather.

TI recently changed the steel they use. Maintenance recommendations are adapted to the needs of the tool to be maintained and vice versa. So that may explain why pastes may be a better choice this day and age for modern razors.

Interesting that you say that, Kees. I have a Super Gnome that I believe is made from the new TI steel. I've honed it to shaving sharp using stones then finishing on diamond and chrome ox for the higher grits. This razor has had numerous test shaves and the edge is still not to my liking. It seems to be a very hard steel. I continue to work with it.......

Originally Posted by Bruce

Chris,

Lemme know if, for the sake of science, you want a bunch of Picassos to annoint with your test pastes. They are a snap to make so long as I have the scrap materials.

Wow, this is a very kind gesture, Bruce. I will most likely take you up on it. I'll PM you when I receive my abrasives. Incidentally, the "tulip wood" paddle you made was impressively flat. I pencil marked the surface, took my granite surface plate and a sheet of 200+ grit regular sandpaper and the pencil marks were gone in just a handful of figure eights.

Chris L