Thread: The Starter Set Dilemma

Originally Posted by Alembic

No, I did not miss this. I'm not even sure if the beginners do. But the same questions get asked constantly.

That is correct, and indeed the reason why we have compiled a list of Frequently Asked Questions. Which means that not only would you have to come up with generic-yet-specific recommendations, you would also have to force people to read them. I do not see how this could be achieved.

As an aside, unlike other forums, we are vendor (retailer/manufacturer/...) independent. In order to be able to further provide expert reviews and advice, neutrality is key.

Regards,
Robin

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

I am sorry, but I cannot see any question marks in your original post.

How about this one:

"Any other ideas?"

And, apparently this has all been thought of and taken care of, so there is nothing to be fixed.

I accept that.

Mods and Developers,

There is no need to get defensive about what has already been done. I brought a problem that I observed to the table and asked if there are any potential solutions beyond what has already been done.

If not, fine.

Alembic,

If, by accident, I should have come across as defensive, I apologise. I was actually trying to help here, by pointing out that while you said you wanted to fix a perceived problem of beginners, you were actually trying to solve the underlying problem of beginners not reading the information we have compiled for them (and which contains all required information in a more generic, and vendor independent form than your suggested approach).

So, yes, all fine indeed.

Thanks,
Robin

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Alembic,

I, by accident, I should have come across as defensive, I apologise. I was actually trying to help here, by pointing out that while you said you wanted to fix a perceived problem of beginners, you were actually trying to solve the underlying problem of beginners not reading the information we have compiled for them (and which contains all required information in a more generic, and vendor independent form than your suggested approach).

So, yes, all fine indeed.

Thanks,
Robin

Thanks Robin, possibly I was the one getting defensive and misinterpreted your response. So I appologize in return.

I understand that the SRP site is and needs to remain vendor independent. You are correct, you can't make somebody read the FAQs. Maybe some of what I wrote as a summary of the 99% responses could help. I only suggested a starter kit to take the anxiety out of the beginners. Obviously a bad idea, or at least one that could not be executed.

There may not be a solution to getting somebody to read the Wiki's and FAQs. But I will continue to think about it.

Thanks again,
David

Maybe make the FAQ kinda like an EULA that they must read when they register and check the box that they have read it. Then you could ban them for not actually reading the terms of service if they ask those same questions

I do understand that everyone is different in how they proceed in acquiring a new hobby and that some people will just blindly ask questions because they do not care to search for them directly and that is a fact of the great masses on the internet. I see SRP as a great community and the only other forums I frequent with a mature and respectful group of people on them ( the other is an armouring site).

Originally Posted by Alembic

Thanks Robin, possibly I was the one getting defensive and misinterpreted your response. So I appologize in return.

Actually, I think you are perfectly right in having interpreted the response as defensive, and I still think that they are rather rudely dismissive. And yes, I know I'm one of the ones that supported the idea and I realize some will see me as being defensive. I cannot help those that interpret my words one way or the other. But this thread, in just a few responses, has revealed something significant about the opinions of some forum moderators about how "beginners" should go about learning from those with more experience.

Basically, this is an RTFM forum. No, it's not possible to make people read the wiki, but just because a wiki is there doesn't mean that every single last sentence in it makes sense. There are acronyms everywhere, for instance, and one has to jump over to the acronym section to figure them out. There are references in the one other thread I have posted in (and yes, I am a newbie, so flame me for that if anyone wishes) where I was getting terms like coticule and barber's hone, etc. I googled them, I looked in the wiki, and got more confused about what would be a good hone to have just around for the once-in-a-while sharpening vs. sending out. The wiki is very useful, but goes back and forth between "this might be good, but might not, and some people like it, but others find it too tough."

But what is too tough? Do I get the .5 micron diamond spray or not? The response, perhaps, is to once again go and RTFM.

I understand that the SRP site is and needs to remain vendor independent.

IMO, this doesn't hold water in this context. Vendor independent, yes. Recommendations of perhaps several models from several vendors for specific razor would be fine, I think. I go to the forum and read that about 5 different razors are good "starter" ones. But if they are all good...why did someone pick one over the other? I go read some more about each one. Read some reviews. They all indicate that...again, they are all good. So...just buy the cheapest?

I now wonder if that question - "if they are all 'good,' should I just buy the cheapest of them?" would be acceptable on the forum.

I realize that with this post I have effectively ostracized myself from this group and I will now just lurk and not ask any questions. I am sure that with enough reading I can eventually find the answers I need. I just want a closer shave. For that, I'll go RTFM.

thanks.
k.

I think this SRP is great and has a large number of incredibly knowledgeable and helpful members. You all should be commended.

As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. The information is "out there" - if you Google "straight razor shaving" SRP comes up 6th on the list.

As Forest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does". Here's the story of THIS stupid does. I was wet shaving using a crummy $10 synthetic brush and a Gillette Fusion. My sequence of events: mission started as a search for a good badger hair brush; became enamored of a shaving set (w/ handle for the Fusion); ordered set; noticed I could get a matching SR, decided "why not" (dangerous philosophy); told vendor to add a SR & strop to the order the next day w/o knowing that I should have asked about it being "shave ready"; THEN looked at SRP and started reading WIKI; ordered another shave ready razor from Lynn.

Bottom line - there would have been no way of protecting me from myself. You guys are good, but you're not psychics. When I talked to Lynn on the phone the other day, he shared with me the easy to keep my SWMBO from being upset about all the money I've spent so far on razors & supplies. Yes, Lynn, I told her to go ahead and but that expensive Arthur Court cake stand should have seen the smile on her face

Thanks for everyone's advice so far. I know I'll be asking for more in the days to come. I'm honored to be among such a great group of guys.

Greg

Holy Crap! I would have been better off posting about religion or politics in the Conversation forum. : )

My appoligies to all of my fellow SRP members.

As a newbie, I can tell you that it feels like there is a dearth of confidence-inspiring starter kits.
I'm a researcher at heart: each one of my other hobbies has received thousands of hours of my time, and I do not have a core area of interest in my life where I can walk into a store or phone tech support and not be far more knowledgeable than the person who works full-time in that domain. It drives me nuts to not know!

That said, there are only so many areas of interest that a man can spend 100 or 1000 hours learning about. Straight shaving has many elements, with technique being arguably the most important. Staring at text descriptions of hundreds of razors and strops and creams and whatnot, all of which have very generic descriptions and very few specs to compare, can get overwhelming. The proper thing to do is to follow the forums for a few months and read a lot of old posts to start to learn about good manufacturers, sizing, blade materials, strop sizes and materials, etc.

I my case, after being fascinated for more than a year, I finally admitted to myself that I wasn't going to spend the 100 or 1000 hours for this project.

I spent maybe 10 hours reading, and came away without a good sense of what to buy. I wanted to get started on *shaving* technique: I don't expect to become a collector, so frankly learning about the brands and histories is a lower priority. Like many newbies, I just want a good all-round, reasonably priced razor/cream/brush/strop setup in my hands so that I can get to the meat of actually shaving with the darned thing!

The available kits are as hard to decipher as the available components. Also, bundled kits in general often contain inferior components to force the user to upgrade each component as soon as possible.

I propose that SRP work with a major vendor to develop a series of kits. The kits would have components from different major manufacturers, so that nobody is playing favorites. They'll be assembled and sold by the online retailer: not by SRP. They would simply say "SRP Selected" or "SRP Recommended" and contain a *quality*, shaving kit.

Think a Dovo Special, Proraso, a good 3" strop, and some Witch Hazel or whatever. Nothing exotic, but components that you can keep using indefinitely if you desire.

SRP will have no financial incentive, which ensures their objectivity. It's simply an exercise in cross-branding and cross-promotion.

The benefit to the vendor is that they sell quality kits to new wet shavers, thus ensuring satisfied customers.

The benefit to SRP is that it directs shoppers there for information.

The benefit to newbies is that it gives us a chance to start actually shaving -- before or during our indoctrination into the world of wet shaving, rather than months later.

Cheers!
Bushmills