Thread: Stropping a wedge?

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but here's a question: If you hone with tape, should you strop with tape?

Moreover, if there's one layer of tape, can you strop without tape? What about 2 layers? How many layers of tape -in honing- means that you'll need tape when stropping? Is there a fairly agreed upon number, or is it guesswork?

No, if you hone with tape you do not need to strop with tape. Just strop it the same as any other razor. When you touch up the razor on a hone, then you need to use the same amount of tape as before, but that's a different matter.

As for wedges vs. hollows and stropping - no difference there either. Just strop like you normally would. Like most of the others who have posted, I don't make the strop super tight, I don't force the razor into the strop, etc., etc. It should be taut and let the weight of the razor hold it flat against the strop.

As to Robin's idea of allowing extra slack for a wedge: I think your idea of "taut" is really tight! Taut is when it doesn't sag without a razor on it, and gives about an inch when the razor is stropped. Even if the strop is taut it will give some slack and you'll get that "triangle" you were talking about when honing a wedge, albeit a smaller "triangle."

The real difference is the feedback and/or sound you get. It's silent and it's weird at first. Just wait 'til you shave with it!

Originally Posted by Stubear

I strop everything the same, but then I have a slight amount of sag in the strop anyway, say 2-3mm.

That's exactly how I use the strop mate.

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Warning, wild speculation ahead.

A hollow grind forms a triangle strop-spine-edge. A true wedge would lie flat on a strop which is pulled taut. Would it not therefore make sense to allow for a limited amount of slack in the strop?

I agree, but I agree with huge reservation of saying a slightly looser hold because too many people will mis-interpret that.. But yes I relax my hold a minuscule amount on heavy wedge styles...

Honestly I don't think anyone could prove that it helps, but in my slightly OCD mind I see the same thing as Robin does...Plus the blade doesn't flex on the heavies where it does on the hollows...

Just so long as your not rolling the edge at the end of the motion on either style it should be just fine IMHO...

iphone post.
no tape when honing, no tape with stropping.
tape on spine changes edge angle and creates a multibevel edge.
therefore it would be better to strop with tape also, to have the angles the same when stropping as when honing

regards

Originally Posted by jojingo

tape on spine changes edge angle and creates a multibevel edge.
therefore it would be better to strop with tape also, to have the angles the same when stropping as when honing

I hope you take this in the right spirit, as no offence is meant, but I think that may be worrying about it all too much.

Firstly, it doesn't necessarily create "multibevels". If you create a bevel with tape & progress right through with the same amount of tape, then there's only one bevel.

Secondly, it just doesn't make enough difference to require a tape honed razor to be taped when stropping.

Tape does cause the bevel to edge relationship to alter over time, but unless you're honing on a weekly basis, I don't think you'll notice much during your lifetime.

Originally Posted by ben.mid

I hope you take this in the right spirit, as no offence is meant, but I think that may be worrying about it all too much.

Firstly, it doesn't necessarily create "multibevels". If you create a bevel with tape & progress right through with the same amount of tape, then there's only one bevel.

Secondly, it just doesn't make enough difference to require a tape honed razor to be taped when stropping.

Tape does cause the bevel to edge relationship to alter over time, but unless you're honing on a weekly basis, I don't think you'll notice much during your lifetime.

No problem Ben I tend to look at sharpening from a theoretical standpoint, being a fairly fanatical knife sharpener.

I have no experience sharpening str8's but I do know my bevels. I believe you when you say it makes little difference in practice (especially on the untreated strop, which according to Dr. Verhoeven research paper does nothing for an edge's polish or for metal removal) and since it's a soft leather surface it's bound to provide some range of contact surface angles with the blade anyway, therefore there is a natural variance in the stropping angles.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on the multibevel, since a razor, even when coming in dull from the factory, is still honed with 1 edge bevel of say for exampl 7 degrees (2*7 = 14 degrees total edge angle). when you tape the spine, you will effectively grind away part of the extreme edge at a larger angle, say for example 7.5 degrees ( 2* 7.5 = 15 total edge angle).
You will be left with a multibevel edge, in this case a dual bevel edge. One consisting of 7 degrees angle and the extreme tip of 7.5.

A single bevel or multibevel are both very sharp and have some theoretical differences in cutting characteristics mostly interesting for knives. A multibevel does however facilitate sharpening, as you have to grind away less metal when honing to restore the edge. Up till the point where you have ground away the original bevel angle.

In that case you're stuck with a razor that needs to be honed with a tape all the time and you have reduced it to the same single bevel as it originally was, only then with a larger edge angle. You'll have to apply more tape, to get back the original ease of honing but then you'll run into the same issue in the (maybe far) future.

I will never use tape on razors I will use, it's only good to tape them up to protect them from honewear.

As I said, rather theoretical. With or without tape you'll enjoy the shave

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Warning, wild speculation ahead.

A hollow grind forms a triangle strop-spine-edge. A true wedge would lie flat on a strop which is pulled taut. Would it not therefore make sense to allow for a limited amount of slack in the strop?

Bang on the mark Robin, not wild speculation at all since this is what I do and it works wonders.

Your theory is correct, and I've been meaning to post about it for a while now. Wedges not only lie flat, but many have smiles (in varying degrees) as well. I was getting ok shaves with wedges, not great. I took a look at how they sit on a fairly taut strop (as I would hold it for a hollow ground), low and behold it was not making contact along the entire surface. It was enough that even an x-pattern would not work well, at least with a 3" wide strop. The solution? And a bit of slack, ensuring that the entire surface is stropped for the FULL stroke.

I also increase my laps on both linen and leather. Between the slack and the increased laps it is like shaving with a new, better razor. Try it. It works.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

Bang on the mark Robin, not wild speculation at all since this is what I do and it works wonders.

Your theory is correct, and I've been meaning to post about it for a while now. Wedges not only lie flat, but many have smiles (in varying degrees) as well. I was getting ok shaves with wedges, not great. I took a look at how they sit on a fairly taut strop (as I would hold it for a hollow ground), low and behold it was not making contact along the entire surface. It was enough that even an x-pattern would not work well, at least with a 3" wide strop. The solution? And a bit of slack, ensuring that the entire surface is stropped for the FULL stroke.

I also increase my laps on both linen and leather. Between the slack and the increased laps it is like shaving with a new, better razor. Try it. It works.

Im going to be a slacker with my wedges, never gave it much thought BUT it makes sense, how many passes 50/100 or more than that?

Originally Posted by nessmuck

Im going to be a slacker with my wedges, never gave it much thought BUT it makes sense, how many passes 50/100 or more than that?

My hollows will get 40 linen, 60 leather. For a wedge I might go up to 50/80 or so. I still play with my ratios for heavier grinds. 50/100 is nice too. The weight of a wedge usually provides some good momentum to your stropping that sometimes I get in the groove and lose count

I should be been a bit more specific in my last post. You don't want so much slack that your strop resembles a banana, just enough that the strop "gives in" a little bit to the razor.

Robin did say "true wedge" I do not recall seeing any that were not initially made with some hollow