Thread: ATG Great - WTG OK - Why?

For me, I hone my razors up to an 8000 grit stone and strop to polish. I shave in a North/South first pass and a South/North second pass. On my face this is a combination of WTG/XTG and ATG. The XTG occurs on parts my neck.The first pass leaves a bit of felt but not seen, stubble. The shave doesn't feel uncomfortable in the least. The second pass gives a 98% BBS shave and is still comfortable.
I have experienced a much cleaner first pass after our friend Jimbo came around to check my honing technique, and touched up my razors on his (much finer) finishing stones. The shave was even more comfortable at that level too, however, the end results were the same. The first pass still didn't give a perfect BBS (which is to be expected), and the second pass still left those small areas, where for the life of me I can't get the angle just right, with a little bit of roughness to them.
The idea is to reduce the beard on each pass. With a straight razor you have a single blade doing one pass with lather, then a second after re-lathering and so on. With a mach 3 you have three blades covering the same ground. The first takes some hair and the lather away, then number two and three blades come along running on bare skin to take away a bit more each, which is why a modern blade is more prone to give you irritation and ingrown hairs, and also makes for a smoother WTG.
In the end a straight razor will give the better shave, as the other factors involved, beard prep and technique etc all play a part and leave your face the healthier for it. Yes, you could use all the same prep and shave with a mach 3 or similar, but you are still giving yourself a two blade dry shave in every pass, and that can't be good for the health of your facial skin at all.


Mick

Gents, what you say makes sense.

What makes less sense (B/C I have less experience) is that 2 or 3 WTG passes still do not come close to the ATG 2nd pass.

However, when I got the razor fresh from Lynn, I could get very smooth with 2 WTG passes in the same areas.

So I am stumped if it is my poor razor stropping/touch up on a 12k/Crox; or technique that is currently keeping me from having a satisfactory "straight only" shave...

Without actually knowing any thing of your personal experience and skill levels, I'm going to say any touch up of your razor done by you on the stone is going to be the biggest detractor from a honing by Lynn, with maybe a little to be desired technique wise.
I've yet to get myself a finer stone, such as a C12k to see if I can match the fine stone honing that Jimbo put on my razors. I don't think I will actually match it, considering the array of stones he used, and the magical propertys that seemed to emanate from one of them in particular . I think it will bring me much closer though...Unless my technique is off. And that will be the tell for me.
Remember too, that you are always going to get a superior shave in one ATG, then you will in several WTG. There is only so much a WTG can do before an XTG or ATG comes along for the 'coup de grace'. Unless you have perfect technique! Then perhaps one WTG will result in BBS 100% of the time.


Mick

Mick,

I am a new Straight Shaver, so there is high probability that my stropping, technique and honing/touch up skill is poor. I shave every day with the Straight, and if I run out of time, I touch up with the Mach III. I shave with both hands, have a normal prep (Shower, hot lather) and strop 25 fabric/50 leather. My TPT tells me that my razor is not as keen as when new, but it does improve if I "touch up" after a few weeks with a Nan 12k. However, it is not like a new pro honed blade.

I am believing that the degraded performance is a combination of all my rookie techniques...however, I still am enjoyong the experience, it is just not as clean of a shave as a new razor.

G'day Elendil, I'd recommend sending it out for a fresh honing. Now, do you have a second straight? Preferably something for practising on. I'd recommend having a second razor, and that's advice coming from a minimalist razor owner.
Like me, you will have yet to come to your full potential with honing/stropping skills and developing that feather light touch required for the truly sharp blade.
Poor shaving technique will be playing a part in it too. I've experience an incredibly poor shave from an even more incredibly sharp razor, due entirely to credibly poor technique.
You're probably past that stage by now and can gain a reasonable shave with out too much issue, but have trouble with some areas or angles. Poor angles will add a little to dulling the edge, and I hope you're not doing the TPT just before a shave and after stropping. It won't help the edge at all.
There are much more qualified people here than me. They will be able to give you the best advice. Just start off with a fresh Pro honing.
I understand the desire to be self sufficient with it all though, to me that is a big part of using a straight...Take it slow, no pressure, and on another razor.


Mick

Mick, Thanks for the great advise. You hit everything on the head. I do have a second razor, so I will send one out to get honed and continue with the learning process...

Originally Posted by Elendil

Gents, what you say makes sense.

What makes less sense (B/C I have less experience) is that 2 or 3 WTG passes still do not come close to the ATG 2nd pass.

However, when I got the razor fresh from Lynn, I could get very smooth with 2 WTG passes in the same areas.

So I am stumped if it is my poor razor stropping/touch up on a 12k/Crox; or technique that is currently keeping me from having a satisfactory "straight only" shave...

Easy enough to just send it out for re-honing and be certain.

Originally Posted by MickR

The idea is to reduce the beard on each pass. With a straight razor you have a single blade doing one pass with lather, then a second after re-lathering and so on. With a mach 3 you have three blades covering the same ground. The first takes some hair and the lather away, then number two and three blades come along running on bare skin to take away a bit more each, which is why a modern blade is more prone to give you irritation and ingrown hairs, and also makes for a smoother WTG.

Mick

+1 - Listen to Mick on this. This is a very different philosophy and goal than an M3. Do not care about how close any individual pass is. You have to take them collectively to realize the closeness of the shave.

I don't think in terms of quantity of passes anymore because of this. I have sensitive skin, so I make multiple light passes. I no longer get any skin irritation and my beard looks an feels like it did what I was about 12. And it lasts 12 - 14 hours. Try that with an M3.

BTW - I asked in a thread a while ago why is the str8 so much better. Somebody pointed out that with the different passes in the different directions, the str8 shapes the end of the whisker like a pencil point. So it can grow out of the skin without causing ingrowns and the tips feel softer as the shave ages during the day.

An M3 cuts chisel bluntness that goes below the surface of the skin no matter which direction you shave. That is why you are prone to ingrowns with it.

David

David,

The M3 screws my face up good. In grown hairs on the neck drive me crazy. I absolutely avoid them since using the straight, however, when forced to use a M3 (b/c of lack of time and/or a quick touch up), my neck goes back to crapville.

Originally Posted by Elendil

David,

The M3 screws my face up good. In grown hairs on the neck drive me crazy. I absolutely avoid them since using the straight, however, when forced to use a M3 (b/c of lack of time and/or a quick touch up), my neck goes back to crapville.

I would seriously invest in a DE for the clean-up while learning and the fall back when time is not available. This is a superior alternative to an M3 because it shaves using the same strategy as a straight razor. Many here do just this.

PS - DE's are way cooler than an M3 (but not as cool as a straight)

David