Thread: Frustration

this thread has definitely helped me out. This mornings shave was way better then the first two.

Originally Posted by Shoki

... I have tried to lay the straight razor flat on my face but it always seems to snag or pull...

And, that is to be expected. The expectation that the first WTG pass thru thick tough stubble should exhibit no pulling is not realistic in my opinion. It will pull!

Get the sharpest commercial blade, be it a DE or a multiblade safety or whatever is the sharpest blade made by a company and take that first WTG pass and there will be significant pulling. You shouldn't expect anything less with a straight razor in my opinion. Again, we're talking about the first WTG pass.

Lay it FLAT, and even though it pulls, it won't razor burn or cut. And, you will accomplish what you did with the DE pass.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

And, that is to be expected. The expectation that the first WTG pass thru thick tough stubble should exhibit no pulling is not realistic in my opinion. It will pull!

Get the sharpest commercial blade, be it a DE or a multiblade safety or whatever is the sharpest blade made by a company and take that first WTG pass and there will be significant pulling. You shouldn't expect anything less with a straight razor in my opinion. Again, we're talking about the first WTG pass.

Lay it FLAT, and even though it pulls, it won't razor burn or cut. And, you will accomplish what you did with the DE pass.

Good luck!

I've got a straight to go through thick whisker like a hot knife through butter. To achieve this I admitedly had to strop an already sharp razor on news print for several hundred laps. The down side was that the edge didn't last 2 shaves. At 100x no scratch pattern could be discerned on the bevel, it's my belief that the tight striations add a degree of strength and rigidity to the edge.
Maybe we are constantly trying to balance out sharpness and smoothness to our own subjective preference. It should be possible to achieve at least as little tug as a DE (feather) with an optimaly honed edge.
Steel and heat treat can make a big difference also. To cut hair (HHT) an edge should be at least 1 micron width. At this scale some carbide (worst still pearlite) clusters of some steels can be this big so these may be the limits to that particular edge. The heat treat paramaters of blade steels have to be tightly controled in order to make the carbon do what is needed, which is why the high carbon fine grain steels are used by factories.
In short if all else fails, that may be the limits of that steel.

Originally Posted by Deckard

... It should be possible to achieve at least as little tug as a DE (feather) with an optimaly honed edge...

Very true! And, that is my exact point. For, when shaving the tougher areas with the best DE blade and you will experience some pulling. Of course, there are areas where the DE cuts like a knife thru butter. But, we're talking about the tough areas.

Originally Posted by Deckard

I've got a straight to go through thick whisker like a hot knife through butter...

And, I think this is typical experience for any of us who have shaved with a straight razor for any length of time. For most of my face, this is always true. But, for the tougher areas, even with the best and sharpest blade you are likely to experience some resistance. (If you have light whispy whiskers, then you are disqualified from this conversation. )

In a way, the cut like butter statements are irrelevant to many readers. For, newbies frequently dull their edge somewhat during stropping, or by insufficient stropping, and other reasons. However, as the experienced here know, even with a slightly less than optimal edge, it is quite possible to get a decent shave. And, for many reading these messages, they won't have an optimal blade. I believe our comments should take this frequent situation in mind and offer as much help to them as possible.

I don't believe the "just send it to someone for honing" is always good advice. Wouldn't it be better to help newbies learn to get good and satisfying shaves with a slightly less than bleeding sharp edge?

In shaving the easy areas, just shave. But, as some barber manuals advise, when shaving your first WTG pass in the wiry tough whisker areas, in my opinion it is good practice to lay the blade flat or almost flat on your face and reduce the length of the whiskers. Then, relather and shave WTG as usual.

Wow! Thank you to everyone.
I apologize for not responding. Unless I am on call, I am usually off the computer each weekend.

I have not shaved since last week. I am going to do so tonight, after work (and after a hot shower). I will definitely post the results- using a lot of advice I've just gained from everyone.

This forum is very friendly. Thank you for your patience and help.

Ok. My first attempt since everyone had some input.

First, I stropped my blade 30 times on the leather strop, keeping the back of the blade flat. I then showered. After, I lathered my face and was prepared. My preparation includes a sink of hot water, a washcloth on one side an a hand towel on the other with the cream behind it. This way I can wash/wet my face with the washcloth, then apply the cream, shave and wipe the cream and hair off on the hand towel.

(I really hope this is the right way to do this.)

-All shaving was done with the grain-

So I started on my dominant side. From the sideburns down to the jawline. I put the back of the blade against my hair and slowly pulled down, keeping the back against my hair/skin. One motion. I wiped the blade and repeated this on the weak side with the weak hand. Result: Nothing. No burns. No hair removed.

I slowly worked around my face in the same manner. The cheeks. Under the neck. Under my mouth above the chin. Then the chin. Then the upper lip. Result: No burns. No hair removed.

At this point I pulled out a little wooden board that has some red substance on it that was part of the blade and strop when I purchased the razor. I stropped on this for 75 strokes.

Second pass:

I washed my face. I lathered up my side burns. I started. Again, nothing. Then the cheeks. On my weak side, I actually began to shave! I had a good amount of hair. No pulling, no burning- nothing but hair! I proceeded under my jaw on my neck. On both my strong and weak sides, I shaved off a good amount of hair! I had some more luck under my mouth and above my chin, but not much. Again, I had no luck with my chin or my upper lip. Results: No razor burns, some hair removal. A feeling of comfort and progress. Positive progress!

Third pass:

I stropped on the leather strop about 10 or so times. I washed my face. I lathered up again. Slowly I began as before. This time I had more success on the weak side of my sideburns and cheeks. I decided on a fourth pass on my dominant side. Result: about an equal shave, no burns. I continued and had further success under my jaw and on my neck. I had some success above my chin. I had almost no success in shaving my chin, under my lip and my upper lip.

At this point, I stopped. I cleaned up. I put on some after shave. No burning. None!

My face looks like a 2 day growth versus a 5 day growth. As I have no razor burn, I am going to attempt this same action tomorrow.

I can't say I no longer feel frustrated. But I do feel like positive progress has taken place.

Well done Man!

Seems like you are progressing nicely.

IMO, it seems that your razor is still in need of a good honing, but it seems that your stropping skills are getting better as we type. The "red" substance sounds like a decent abrasive paste on the wood, and it seems that you actually got your blade a fair bit sharper by stropping on it. Well done!

I still could recommend getting a cheap disposable straight razor while you are getting used to what the sharpness "should" feel like. This will be a really cheap way of getting to know your face with a very sharp blade, and will give you a lot of satisfaction and experience to move on to the real straight. Should cost you about $20 for a cheap disposable straight, plus some blades....but this is entirely up to you.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Originally Posted by Nadie

... So I started on my dominant side. From the sideburns down to the jawline. I put the back of the blade against my hair and slowly pulled down, keeping the back against my hair/skin. One motion. I wiped the blade and repeated this on the weak side with the weak hand. Result: Nothing. No burns. No hair removed...

Was the razor slipping over your beard, not digging into the whiskers?

If the blade was slipping over the beard, not cutting at all, raise the bevel slightly and try again. Raise it just enough to barely start shaving. If you raise it too much, and 30 degrees at this point is often too much, the razor will dig in and you will get razor burn.

Flat of almost flat, whatever it takes to reduce the length of your beard without razor burning yourself.

And, remember that with subsequent WTG passes after the initial beard reduction pass (or stroke), you probably should increase the angle. Most of your shave will be at the oft quoted 30 degrees neighborhood. The flat or almost flat direction only applies to the very beginning pass.

You removed whiskers and didn't get razor burn. That tells me you made progress, and probably more progress than you realize.

Good work!

Keep at it. I was almost giddy and I still can remember (can't forget) the feeling when the blade was perfect and cutting against my face. I will forever be chasing this feeling.

I explained it to a co worker as if the blade was the tines of a music box and my whiskers were the notes.

whitney music box var. 17 - hand cranked
whitney music box var. 7 - harmonics - 120 tines, reversed

This is great! You are well on your way. Continued patience and perseverance and a month's time and you'll be giving us advice!