Thread: God, It's Hard!

Originally Posted by fatcatmehmet

Do you think I should order anything else from this list? Since I pay the shipment for norton already, I can a few other items from this vendor.

A 1k stone might be needed if the bevel isn't set. My life is much easier since one was given to me.

Thanks, but I've got a Turkish Oil Stone. They say it's around 1200 grit. I suppose it does the trick.

Hi FatCatMehmet,

From your list I'd recommend the 8" diamond hone, 325 grit/1200 grit (item # 70M04.10). You'll need the 325 grit to lap (flatten) your new Norton stone and chamfer its edges, and as others have posted, it's good to have something in the 1000 grit range for setting the bevel before you go to your Norton. These are two important grits to have; you're lucky you can get them on one hone. Don't use the 1200-grit side to lap your Norton; you can wear the diamonds off the base that way.

If you haven't yet, read about honing in our Wiki. It's too bad you have so much trouble finding supplies locally. In the U.S. we find a lot of our razors in antique stores. The really lucky among us also find good hones.

About your cuts... if your razor isn't sharp enough you might be pressing too hard to make it shave, and that can turn it into a flesh-eater. On your with-the-grain passes, try only to wipe the lather off with the blade. That's all the force it should take to shave with the grain. If it takes more, wait for your hones to arrive, study the Wiki, and don't try the straight again until it's as sharp as it should be. Have a barber shave you, and pay attention to how much pressure he uses, how he changes direction on different parts of your face, how he makes lather, all that stuff. It's a great learning opportunity.

Here are the Wiki sections I recommend, in order:

Beginner's Guide to Honing
Strokes for Honing a Razor
Bevel-Setting in Theory and Practice
Sharpness Tests Explained
Pyramid Honing Guide

Then as a review and to exercise all your new knowledge,

Lynn Abrams on Honing

This last one assumes you already know a fair amount about honing. If you climbed to a mountaintop with questions about honing, it's Lynn who would be there to answer them.

If you follow the Pyramid Honing Guide and use the correct pressure of blade on hone (light, just like shaving), you'll get good results.

We have members in the UK who might be able to hone for you, if that makes shipping cheaper or easier.

What is the razor you are using?

Best wishes and good luck!

roughkype, thank you very much for the detailed advice. I'll follow it through. Just one thing though, I've got a Turkish Oil Stone and an Arkansas Stone(I guess it's the hard one but seems less fine than my TOS, it's pinkish) so do I still have to get diamond or 1k stones? 50/220 grit is also available in knife shops in Istanbul.

Originally Posted by fatcatmehmet

roughkype, thank you very much for the detailed advice. I'll follow it through. Just one thing though, I've got a Turkish Oil Stone and an Arkansas Stone(I guess it's the hard one but seems less fine than my TOS, it's pinkish) so do I still have to get diamond or 1k stones? 50/220 grit is also available in knife shops in Istanbul.

You're welcome, I'm glad it helps.

I don't know anything about the Turkish Oil Stone or Arkansas stones, except that the Arkansas stones are slow cutters and it can be hard to know what their grit size is.

The thing about the DMT brand diamond hones is you KNOW they're flat, so you know it's safe to lap your other hones with them. Perfect flatness isn't that important with the hones, but you do need to keep them clean of the metal particles. Also, most folks say that you remove as much as 1/8" (about 3 mm) from the 4k side of the Norton stone before it starts to behave. I have not done that with mine, and it's working OK for me.

If I didn't already have a 1k stone and a 325 DMT, I'd order that two sided one for myself. The fact that it's 8" long is also nice; you'll get a longer stroke when honing on the 1200 side, and it'll be easy to take care of your Norton. Since you have to spend so much for shipping, you might as well include this.

Finally, this is a pretty standard hone set for the users at SRP, so if you post with questions we can answer based on experience with the same hones.

I just searched the honing threads for the word "Turkey", and found not only a little info on your stone but also that there are a couple of other Turkish members here: kemerd who lives in Vienna, and ferroburak who lives in Ankara.

There was one estimate of up to 12000 grit for the Turkish oil stone, which would make it a good finisher. I hope yours is that fine.

Talk to you later, then.

There are very cheap aluminium oxide 180/230 grit stones for $2 around here. Would these do the trick for lapping and chamfering?

I'm really confused about Turkish Oil Stone now. Is it really that fine? I was planning to get another over 10000 range stone for finishing.

Merehaba FatCat

Just curious, where in Turkey do you live?

My family and I lived there for 2 years and we'd love to go back.

Hi Fatcatmehmet,

The 180/230 grit might be a little coarse for flattening your other stones, and you don't know if they're flat. That's important--good hones are, as you're discovering, very expensive. If you try to lap them with a stone that is not flat, you'll wear them unevenly. You'll either lap a dish into the center, or thin too much off the ends. I really recommend against saving money on your lapping hone. The DMT ones are very flat, guaranteed.

There are different systems used to refer to grit. 1200 on the FEPA scale is the same as 4000 on the JIS scale, or the same as about a 3 micron particle size. But natural stones can vary a lot. It's hard to say what your TOS really is. You could post the question in the honing thread, and see what people think of it.

The commonest AFFORDABLE finisher people use is a Chinese natural water stone, with a grit around 12000 (JIS scale, the same as your Norton). People abbreviate it as the C12K or the PHIG (People's Hone of Indeterminate Grit). Here's a vendor's link to that stone. I didn't see one like it at the site you're ordering your Norton from. There are also very fine Japanese natural stones, and antique German and English polishing stones, which can be VERY expensive. You might also consider a coticule in a couple more years.

You should post your question in the honing forum--tell what hones you're ordering now, and ask what people recommend for a finishing hone. The folks reading in that forum may not be reading in this one.

Good luck and best wishes.

Do you think I should order anything else from this list? Since I pay the shipment for norton already, I can a few other items from this vendor.

Some people can get a "shave-ready" edge on the Norton 8K stone. I cannot do it.

My suggestion:

Get a bar of "Veritas Honing Compound" from Lee Valley -- item "05M08.01".

Rub a little bit of that on a cloth strop (or on a leather strop -- _not_ the leather strop you use every day) -- that's a "pasted strop". Balsa wood (or other soft wood) should work also.

After finishing on the Norton 8K, I strop the razor 5 - 10 times on the cloth strop with honing compound. Then I strop on plain leather.

That gives me a very comfortable "shave-ready" edge. I use the pasted strop whenever I can't get a good edge on the razor with a plain leather strop.

You can buy diamond paste from Lee Valley for a pasted strop. But the "honing compound" is cheap, and works OK. A 6 oz (150 gm) bar will last for a lifetime of shaving.

Charles

Originally Posted by tyesai

Merehaba FatCat

Just curious, where in Turkey do you live?

My family and I lived there for 2 years and we'd love to go back.

Merhaba tyesai,

I live in Istanbul, in Sisli to be exact. You've just missed the best time for bluefish in Marmara. It's extraordinarily tasty due to the specific temperature of the Marmara.

Originally Posted by roughkype

Hi Fatcatmehmet,

The 180/230 grit might be a little coarse for flattening your other stones, and you don't know if they're flat. That's important--good hones are, as you're discovering, very expensive. If you try to lap them with a stone that is not flat, you'll wear them unevenly. You'll either lap a dish into the center, or thin too much off the ends. I really recommend against saving money on your lapping hone. The DMT ones are very flat, guaranteed.

There are different systems used to refer to grit. 1200 on the FEPA scale is the same as 4000 on the JIS scale, or the same as about a 3 micron particle size. But natural stones can vary a lot. It's hard to say what your TOS really is. You could post the question in the honing thread, and see what people think of it.

The commonest AFFORDABLE finisher people use is a Chinese natural water stone, with a grit around 12000 (JIS scale, the same as your Norton). People abbreviate it as the C12K or the PHIG (People's Hone of Indeterminate Grit). Here's a vendor's link to that stone. I didn't see one like it at the site you're ordering your Norton from. There are also very fine Japanese natural stones, and antique German and English polishing stones, which can be VERY expensive. You might also consider a coticule in a couple more years.

You should post your question in the honing forum--tell what hones you're ordering now, and ask what people recommend for a finishing hone. The folks reading in that forum may not be reading in this one.

Good luck and best wishes.

You know I actually discovered that my TOS weren't flat after your post. I rubbed the aluminium oxide stone over it because it's artificial and I checked it on a paper lying on flat glass surface. Anyway, when I rub it on TOS, I got a pattern of dust, not everywhere on the surface got the dust. Especially corners of the stone didn't show any sign of wearing. I've got friends working for natural stone companies like this. I guess I can ask them to flatten my stone in their work shop. They've got machines to fill and hone the stone tiles.

Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

Some people can get a "shave-ready" edge on the Norton 8K stone. I cannot do it.

My suggestion:

Get a bar of "Veritas Honing Compound" from Lee Valley -- item "05M08.01".

Rub a little bit of that on a cloth strop (or on a leather strop -- _not_ the leather strop you use every day) -- that's a "pasted strop". Balsa wood (or other soft wood) should work also.

After finishing on the Norton 8K, I strop the razor 5 - 10 times on the cloth strop with honing compound. Then I strop on plain leather.

That gives me a very comfortable "shave-ready" edge. I use the pasted strop whenever I can't get a good edge on the razor with a plain leather strop.

You can buy diamond paste from Lee Valley for a pasted strop. But the "honing compound" is cheap, and works OK. A 6 oz (150 gm) bar will last for a lifetime of shaving.

Charles

Thanks Charles, I've added the item. I hope they haven't shipped the norton already.