Thread: Grind for beginner?

Hi gents!

A youtuber asked for for advice on what grind to get:

"Hello Thomas. I want to start straight shaving soon. I'm looking forward a 5/8 dovo. But I'm not sure whether to choose full or half hollow. I've read half hollow is more forgiving for a beginner, but I was wondering if such a razor is better for heavier beards. I have a thin, not too dense beard (except a bit denser on my neck).
Which gring would you recommend me considering that I'm a beginner and my beard is not too thick?
Full or half hollow?"

But I dont really know too much about grinds, or how they differ in shaving ability?

A little help would be much appreciated.

Thomas in the Wiki and the beginner section is a recommendation and why

but here is the condensed version

Size 6/8 why=because it is dead center, and perhaps a bit easier to control on the strops but 5/8 is fine too

Grind 1/2 hollow why= because it is dead center and a bit more forgiving to a newb...

Round nose because it gives the illusion of being slightly safer

What Glen says is as good as you'll find.

I continue to find 6/8 the easiest size to use.

I found the heavier grinds (1/4 hol & near wedge) easier to use at first. I continue to like them alot, but below the mouth line, my growth is quite heavy. I use and enjoy blades as small as 4/8, and flexible full/extra hollows, but they were much more of a challenge at first.

With what you've heard already, I would say the condition of the edge is probably more important than small differences in size & grind. Everyone will say shave ready is critical - and they're right. Beyond that, I would say an edge optimized for smoothness - such as from a coticule or jnat. The friendliness of those finishes did more for my enjoyment of a blade than looks, sizes or grinds could possibly provide.

By all means, keep posting on how the first shaves go. The help here is unbelievable.

I agree with everyone above--half-hollow, finished on a gentle hone. 6/8 blades aren't as common as 5/8 blades, and that's why I started on a 5/8. Having learned on 5/8, I found that my one 6/8 blade carries way more lather (so I don't need to rinse it as often) and shaves under the nose almost as well as the narrower blades--the difference there is negligible, but it exists.

Since all my muscle memory was formed on 5/8 blades, I have cut myself a couple of times with the 6/8 just because the edge was a little farther out from my grip than I was used to. But if you learn on a 6/8, everything else will be that much safer... except of course for those monster 7/8 and 8/8 blades.

Best wishes!

Originally Posted by pinklather

Beyond that, I would say an edge optimized for smoothness - such as from a coticule or jnat. The friendliness of those finishes did more for my enjoyment of a blade than looks, sizes or grinds could possibly provide.

And Ya lost me there,

Are you saying that edges off other stones are not optimized for smoothness ???

Or are you saying that In Your Humble Opinion that Your razors honed by your hands shaved on your face, perhaps like the edge off of your Coticule and your J-nat more than other stones that you have experienced on your razors... See how personal that got ???

I tend not to like broad statements like that, it confuses people...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

And Ya lost me there,

Are you saying that edges off other stones are not optimized for smoothness ???

Or are you saying that In Your Humble Opinion that Your razors honed by your hands shaved on your face, perhaps like the edge off of your Coticule and your J-nat more than other stones that you have experienced on your razors... See how personal that got ???

I tend not to like broad statements like that, it confuses people...

Not to hijack this thread, however... Although I am not the original poster that led to your response, I do find an edge off my coticule to be smoother than my Naniwas. Even stranger, if I tweak an edge off a Naniwa with a coticule, I don't get the level of smoothness than if I used only the coticule from start to finish. I have tried a number of different razors and I get the same response each time. Any insight? PM is okay.

The simple answer is "You found your stone sell the others"

The complicated answer is "Practice makes perfect"

I say that because you mentioned multiple razors... Some razors excel on some stones in some hands...

I use a Coticule on Sheffield steel for my customers because that gets me the best responses from them...

Now does that mean I would get bad responses if I used a Coticule on say a NY brand extreme hollow??? Nope... But I know that taking those razors out on the Shaptons to a 30K finish gets me "Wow"

Same as I know taking the Hard Steel Solingens (Friodurs, ERN's, Re visor's, Wacker's just a few names there) is going to get me "Wow" when I use the Naniwas..

Or the Swedes on a CH12k

You also have to take into account the stones themselves, paired with the hands pushing them... everything I just said above, could change for a different person...

Softer Lower grit stones tend to be more forgiving to heavy hands, where as when you get into the 8k+ hard Synthetics and the higher grit Naturals you have to have a smooth light stroke. hence the practice makes perfect statement... You also have to take into account the Slurry action which softens your stroke try that on the Naniwas too and see what happens. (there is a whole thread about it)

You also have to take into account Personal preference in this whole thing, the stones action can account for a ton there, your personal choice of razors can too and of course your stroke...

You will notice that the more razors you hone, and the more stones you use, the more you will learn that there really is no best/smoothest/magical stone they are all just tools...

This is exactly why when I see broad stroke statements, I will usually say Whoa there, that isn't necessarily true for everyone...


Edit: I forgot the whole differences in Natural stones too, here read this thread it will explain it

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...nese-hone.html

look at post #12 twice, you will see the same statement again, that I wrote above

Originally Posted by bonusmarple

Not to hijack this thread, however... Although I am not the original poster that led to your response, I do find an edge off my coticule to be smoother than my Naniwas. Even stranger, if I tweak an edge off a Naniwa with a coticule, I don't get the level of smoothness than if I used only the coticule from start to finish. I have tried a number of different razors and I get the same response each time. Any insight? PM is okay.

In thousands of razors honed I have never found the edges off any of my Coticules to be smoother than a Naniwa SS 12K, or my Escher or any of my Japanese Naturals for that matter. Coticules are adequate stones that will work. I used a couple exclusively for 2 years in finishing razors before I bought my first Escher. I have never had better results with the Coticule on one stone honing after a bevel is set than on my Escher and Japanese Naturals as well. From a consistency and reliability standpoint, I have not found a natural stone yet that can beat a few of the synthetics.

I think if you really wanna have some fun, do 10 light X strokes with .5 diamond spray on felt or CrOx and in a blind test, identify what hone it came off of.

In answer to the poster, I think that a 5/8 full hollow is a great razor for new people and recommend them all the time. They are maneuverable and will last a person a life time if that is the only razor they want. The full hollow is sturdy and yet delicate. I think new people get a better feel at first when shaving with them. The biggest problem for new guys though is technique. Once they get prep and a good shaving angle down, it becomes all personal preference.

Have fun,

Lynn

Originally Posted by gssixgun

And Ya lost me there,

Are you saying that edges off other stones are not optimized for smoothness ???

Or are you saying that In Your Humble Opinion that Your razors honed by your hands shaved on your face, perhaps like the edge off of your Coticule and your J-nat more than other stones that you have experienced on your razors... See how personal that got ???

I tend not to like broad statements like that, it confuses people...

Whoa Glen,

I didn't read Pinklather's post as an inclusive hone list. I have an extra-hollow he honed on his Asagi and the edge gave me an epiphany about smoothness and a goal in my own honing.

We haven't all lucked into the experience of an unusually friendly edge, or gained the wisdom from long work. Many of us came to the site not knowing the terms "bevel setter" or "finisher." I knew the idea of a smooth edge before I got the blade from Pinklather, but the idea of a friendly edge, such as one can get from some types of hones, is one I hadn't considered before.

I'm not going to dive into the Jnat market to try to replicate it; I'm going to work on technique with my own hones to see if I can make it happen with them. But I won't expect that sort of edge off the Norton 8k.

Anyway, in my humble opinion, I don't see why you got your hackles up over that.

Originally Posted by roughkype

I'm not going to dive into the Jnat market to try to replicate it; I'm going to work on technique with my own hones to see if I can make it happen with them. But I won't expect that sort of edge off the Norton 8k.

Anyway, in my humble opinion, I don't see why you got your hackles up over that.

For that exact reason, see what you just said????

Again you are thinking it is the stone that makes the edge,, With the proper technique that "Lowly Norton 8k" will smoke many pricier hones for as you keep trying to qualify as a "friendly edge" What exactly is a friendlier edge please qualify that ????

FYI there is a E-bay seller that moves tons of razors, and people stiil brag about his edges, believe it or not he still uses a Norton 4/8 and some CrOx that's it nothing more...

That is what gets my hackles (your words) up.


Edit: I gotta ask??? do you want to believe it is all in the stones ?? that if you just buy the right stone you will get fantastic edges???