Thread: Grind for beginner?

Thanks Glen!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

And Ya lost me there,

Are you saying that edges off other stones are not optimized for smoothness ???

Or are you saying that In Your Humble Opinion that Your razors honed by your hands shaved on your face, perhaps like the edge off of your Coticule and your J-nat more than other stones that you have experienced on your razors... See how personal that got ???

I tend not to like broad statements like that, it confuses people...

Whoa Glen,

I didn't read Pinklather's post as an inclusive hone list. I have an extra-hollow he honed on his Asagi and the edge gave me an epiphany about smoothness and a goal in my own honing.

We haven't all lucked into the experience of an unusually friendly edge, or gained the wisdom from long work. Many of us came to the site not knowing the terms "bevel setter" or "finisher." I knew the idea of a smooth edge before I got the blade from Pinklather, but the idea of a friendly edge, such as one can get from some types of hones, is one I hadn't considered before.

I'm not going to dive into the Jnat market to try to replicate it; I'm going to work on technique with my own hones to see if I can make it happen with them. But I won't expect that sort of edge off the Norton 8k.

Anyway, in my humble opinion, I don't see why you got your hackles up over that.

Originally Posted by roughkype

I'm not going to dive into the Jnat market to try to replicate it; I'm going to work on technique with my own hones to see if I can make it happen with them. But I won't expect that sort of edge off the Norton 8k.

Anyway, in my humble opinion, I don't see why you got your hackles up over that.

For that exact reason, see what you just said????

Again you are thinking it is the stone that makes the edge,, With the proper technique that "Lowly Norton 8k" will smoke many pricier hones for as you keep trying to qualify as a "friendly edge" What exactly is a friendlier edge please qualify that ????

FYI there is a E-bay seller that moves tons of razors, and people stiil brag about his edges, believe it or not he still uses a Norton 4/8 and some CrOx that's it nothing more...

That is what gets my hackles (your words) up.


Edit: I gotta ask??? do you want to believe it is all in the stones ?? that if you just buy the right stone you will get fantastic edges???

Glen is using a lot of words to say: It's the hands, stupid

Straight to the point as always Paul hehehe

I did mention that up there someplace though, I said "Practice makes Perfect"

Originally Posted by bonusmarple

Not to hijack this thread, however... Although I am not the original poster that led to your response, I do find an edge off my coticule to be smoother than my Naniwas. Even stranger, if I tweak an edge off a Naniwa with a coticule, I don't get the level of smoothness than if I used only the coticule from start to finish. I have tried a number of different razors and I get the same response each time. Any insight? PM is okay.

In thousands of razors honed I have never found the edges off any of my Coticules to be smoother than a Naniwa SS 12K, or my Escher or any of my Japanese Naturals for that matter. Coticules are adequate stones that will work. I used a couple exclusively for 2 years in finishing razors before I bought my first Escher. I have never had better results with the Coticule on one stone honing after a bevel is set than on my Escher and Japanese Naturals as well. From a consistency and reliability standpoint, I have not found a natural stone yet that can beat a few of the synthetics.

I think if you really wanna have some fun, do 10 light X strokes with .5 diamond spray on felt or CrOx and in a blind test, identify what hone it came off of.

In answer to the poster, I think that a 5/8 full hollow is a great razor for new people and recommend them all the time. They are maneuverable and will last a person a life time if that is the only razor they want. The full hollow is sturdy and yet delicate. I think new people get a better feel at first when shaving with them. The biggest problem for new guys though is technique. Once they get prep and a good shaving angle down, it becomes all personal preference.

Have fun,

Lynn

Originally Posted by gssixgun

And Ya lost me there,

Are you saying that edges off other stones are not optimized for smoothness ???

Or are you saying that In Your Humble Opinion that Your razors honed by your hands shaved on your face, perhaps like the edge off of your Coticule and your J-nat more than other stones that you have experienced on your razors... See how personal that got ???

I tend not to like broad statements like that, it confuses people...

Hi Glen,

Don't mean to pull your pin on this. Or stir up more heat than light. Perhaps shaptons can be optimized for smoothness, but that edge hasn't crossed my path. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Perhaps that's your thrust. Perhaps in the right hands they can - but the honing and shaving threads aren't full of threads about smoothness of edge and shaptons. If anyone has the trick up their sleeve that could make it so - I would bet you do. (remember I've tried a shapton finish from your skilled hands).

If any given stone can be used to emphasize smoothness - as opposed to max keenness, that smoothness is an aid to the noob. If others can get smoothness from other rocks - that's what would help the noob. Objecting to the broad statement - I have some respect for that. If you're guarding against folks thinking that only cotis & jnats can produce smooth - that's a worthy correction and you do us yet another service. OTOH, if you search stone type and 'smooth', you'll find both rocks I mention to be very well represented, if not dominant. That doesn't make it right for all. 'Doesn't make max smoothness right for all. I'm addressing the OP asking about what's good for a beginner. Lynn and Sham - probably many other masters of the rocks speak so highly of the Escher/Thurry. I'm not qualified to talk about them. But like yourself, they have techniques that would yield max sharp and max smooth, and most probably like some balance of that. The noob benefits from smoothness during the time technique develops. Whatever produces that benefit is what I advocate. That was the thrust of my post.

I used to have hackles that got up all the time,
but then they'd run off and be real hard to find.
So I just put them away in very safe place
and just concentrated on the straight shaving race.

They'll still get up sometimes, and I can hear them roar,
but they're always safely confined in my bureau drawer.
They're in there with my razors, soaps, and my brush,
so when I hear them get up I just tell them to hush.

Originally Posted by pinklather

Hi Glen,

Don't mean to pull your pin on this. Or stir up more heat than light. Perhaps shaptons can be optimized for smoothness, but that edge hasn't crossed my path. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Perhaps that's your thrust. Perhaps in the right hands they can - but the honing and shaving threads aren't full of threads about smoothness of edge and shaptons. If anyone has the trick up their sleeve that could make it so - I would bet you do. (remember I've tried a shapton finish from your skilled hands).

If any given stone can be used to emphasize smoothness - as opposed to max keenness, that smoothness is an aid to the noob. If others can get smoothness from other rocks - that's what would help the noob. Objecting to the broad statement - I have some respect for that. If you're guarding against folks thinking that only cotis & jnats can produce smooth - that's a worthy correction and you do us yet another service. OTOH, if you search stone type and 'smooth', you'll find both rocks I mention to be very well represented, if not dominant. That doesn't make it right for all. 'Doesn't make max smoothness right for all. I'm addressing the OP asking about what's good for a beginner. Lynn and Sham - probably many other masters of the rocks speak so highly of the Escher/Thurry. I'm not qualified to talk about them. But like yourself, they have techniques that would yield max sharp and max smooth, and most probably like some balance of that. The noob benefits from smoothness during the time technique develops. Whatever produces that benefit is what I advocate. That was the thrust of my post.

The rock of which you speak has been made popular of late by a huge marketing process. The names of the stones have been changed and the stories glorified. There is even a site dedicated to the marketing of the stones for the place that mines them in my opinion. There is no smooth without sharp in my opinion. That stone is a can do stone that can provide respectable results. There are better stones and more consistent stones available. The Shapton Glass Stones can be used on any make of razor with very repeatable results. The stone you speak of can be used with any razor after bevel setting with decent results but not with the same consistency.

My apologies to the original poster for all the off topic.

Have fun,

Lynn

Pastor,

Something perhaps to consider is using the Google map page to find other members in your area. The benefits abound. Help with technique probably being the best benefit.

Another possibility is that there will be some forum members that might let you try some of their gear - blades, soaps, creams, observe your technique, etc. I've extended this offer to those local to the Portland, OR area, but none have taken me up on this. When I asked how to find one's preferences in gear - the answer was always a form of 'get one and try it'. That's fine, it works, but is costly. I introduced a new shaver to the straight, using an edge that was very friendly, and he continued with confidence way beyond my recommended stopping point. 'Bloodless, smooth, no irritation. He had a raspberry, mid-neck. I said: 'that's not bad'. He said: 'that was with the DE I was finishing with'.

Don't let all the huff and puff of our passions about rocks put you off. The short version is that in very little time, you'll likely have the best shaves of your life, and each guy here stands ready to give the best help they possibly can. I've never found a forum where the help was better - ever - on any topic.

I hope to hear soon of your first shaves. It's a real rush.