Thread: Can't get sharp enough

Hi, I'm a noob, although I have been reading this forum for about 6 months and shaving with a straight razor on and off about as long. Let me just say that I LOVE shaving.

I grew up with crap Gilette razors that used to relentlessly razor-burn me. I hated shaving, and would do it about 1 week a month, so I always looked scruffy. and when I did shave, people always asked me why I hadn't shaved.

Desperate for a change, I looked into using a DE razor, and remembered that I had actually inherited my grandfather's 1940s Gilette DE a long time ago. I used that for a while, and it was really very good, but it seemed like the blade wasn't that well aligned, and I cut myself frequently. Then, I got an open comb Merkur Classic 1904 with merkur blades, and got (and still get) the most superb shave I've ever had. My beard is completely eliminated, my skin completely soft, I never get cuts or nicks, and it's really nice.

I wanted a challenge, and straight razors have always appealed to me. So, I bought a TI singing 5/8 from classicshaving.com. I love this razor as an object, and I even like shaving with it, but it's increasingly becoming clear to me that, even though I have occasionally passed the hanging hair test, this razor has never been shaving sharp for me. First, I had a paddle strop with diamond paste on one side, then I got a small Dovo hanging strop. Eventually, I caved and bought a Norton 4k/8k waterstone, and read everything I could read on the Internet, and tried honing.

What is driving me crazy is that I get inconsistent results. With the honing. If I am absolutely even and perfect every time, I can get it sharp enough to pass the hanging hair test, but only sometimes. Same thing after stropping. Sometimes, I pass the test after honing, but not after stropping. Sometimes I fail after honing and pass after stropping. I'm on the verge of buying another razor to see if some razors are just easier to hone than others, or giving up entirely.

I guess it could be my shaving technique too, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Even when the razor feels sharp, and snaps a hair dragged (but not always just draped) over it, when I put it on my face, it doesn't take off my hair unless I go against the grain, and that never ends well. I can get a complete shave after several passes, but then my face is sore enough that it makes me miss my DE and reminds me of the Gilette days.

I know I could send my razor to Lynn, but I want to feel the accomplishment of shaving with the work of my own hands. Plus, I'd probably just dull the razor with my bad stropping technique anyway and then where would I be? Give a man a fish...

I feel silly because everyone asks the same question ("how do I get my razor shaving sharp?"), but just the same I'm hoping for some help that might suit me specifically.

Thanks in advance...

Obviously, there's an issue of whether you really know what a keen edge is. So, you're only solution is to have it honed by Lynn once. Then you'll have a guage (standard). It's not like you won't oo rbe able to do it yourself- you just need to calibrate.

You talk a lot about the HHT, but you never tell us how the razor shaved. That's the only real test. I, for one have never been able to get the HHT to work on any razor honed by anyone, yet I had quite a few razors honed by the best, and all of my razors are no shaving sharp.progress was ret

Although you will need to develop an reliable test, forget about the HHT for now and concentrate one the shave. My arded for while because I was using a Feather str8 as the standard for sharpness without knowing it was not achieveable. When i gave that up and got a few razors from the experts, i realized I coud do itand had a realistic standard to wrk against. You're probably doing the same thing by refusing to get a shaving sharp razor as a model.

Hmm, thanks. Okay, I am not refusing to get my razor honed, I just would have liked to be able to do it myself. As for how the razor shaved, the best I can say is that it shaved okay in a couple places and not as well elsewhere. For example, on my cheek with the grain in a variety of different angles and orientations, it will cut some of the hair, but not give me an especially close shave. If I lay the spine on my cheek and go back up very lightly, I can get it close under my sideburns and it feels perfect. If I drag the razor lightly on my face at 20-30% anywhere, I get serious razor burn.

You really need to get your razor sharpened by an expert, so you can eliminate that as a variable. Your problems could be caused by your prep, technique, stropping, or something else. Or maybe it is your honing. But getting a known sharp razor is the first step.

Are you sure your Norton is true? I had major problems honing with mine until I lapped it with 600 grit wet sandpaper on some glass.

What grits do you have on your pasted strop? If it's 0.5 or 0.25 micron, those grits are more for smoothing out a sharp edge than they are for improving the sharpness of a dull edge; you may need something like 1.0 or 3.0 micron. I generally go from 4k -> 8k -> 1M -> 0.5M using a vaguely pyramidish scheme, and that seems to work ok.

Have someone hone your razor for you. Lynn, Joe Chandler or just ask and someone will help you out. Usually a small fee is charged, $15-$20 plus postage.

To some extent your face will toughen up when shaving with a straight. I can remember how a DE would burn my face, now after shaving all the time with a straight a DE doesn't even faze me. Try buying a few razors off of ebay and practice with them and or get a shave ready razor from a member to compare with.
I highly reccomend the later, just so you can tell if it is you or the razor. From then on by all means do it yourself, you have all the tools. PM me and I can point out a few ebay razors to practice your honing skills on. You might find that you could get your best shave with one of them.

Glen

Originally Posted by russellnyc

Hmm, thanks. Okay, I am not refusing to get my razor honed, I just would have liked to be able to do it myself. As for how the razor shaved, the best I can say is that it shaved okay in a couple places and not as well elsewhere. For example, on my cheek with the grain in a variety of different angles and orientations, it will cut some of the hair, but not give me an especially close shave. If I lay the spine on my cheek and go back up very lightly, I can get it close under my sideburns and it feels perfect. If I drag the razor lightly on my face at 20-30% anywhere, I get serious razor burn.

Nobody's saying you shouldn't do it yourself...it's admirable you've gone this long and keep trying. The point is you need a standard against which to gauge your results. If you don't have an example, you don't know what you should be shooting for. I got a couple from Lynn, and my honing improved overnight, because I knew what a really well-honed one should feel, and most importantly, shave like.

Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

Nobody's saying you shouldn't do it yourself...it's admirable you've gone this long and keep trying. The point is you need a standard against which to gauge your results. If you don't have an example, you don't know what you should be shooting for. I got a couple from Lynn, and my honing improved overnight, because I knew what a really well-honed one should feel, and most importantly, shave like.

Joe is preaching the truth...you will not know what sharp is until you get a razor honed by Lynn. As mentioned Joe also can do it and I have heard he can put a real mean edge on a razor as well...or if you want to by a new razor John Crowleys come super sharp as well.

I dont hone yet (soon honest) but all my razors have either been honed by Lynn, Bill, or John Crowley and I know what sharp is...ortherwise I would honestly be clueless.

- send out your good one to get honed. that will give your face a bit of reprieve anyways

- get on ebay and buy 1 or 2 cheap junkers THAT DON"T HAVE CHIPPED EDGES for 5$ range. practice on those and compare your work to what you get back on the good razor from whoever honed it for you.

- LESS PRESSURE while you are doing your final laps of honing and definitely while you are stropping. i mean 0 pressure. slow down, and be precise with your stropping. i personally dulled razors for the first week+ of stropping till i fgured out i was screwing it up.

Okay, I do appreciate the advice, I will send the TI out to be sharpened. I see lots of talk about having a profesionally sharpened razor as a point of reference, and I think that's sound advice.

On another note, I went today to get myself professionally shaved at The Art of Shaving, which is near my office in Manhattan. An older Russian man named Boris did the shave, and meticulously prepped me (2 hot towels, oil, lather, more lather), then proceeded to scrape away with a feather. He made 3 passes, one with, one against, and then one consisting of him hacking away at my chin in all directions (at least he confirmed my suspicion that this is a VERY difficult part of my face). He then gave me another hot towel, a masque, a cold towel, aftershave, shaved the back of my neck with the same blade, and then some sort of rosewater spray. He was applying a fair amount of pressure throughout the shave, it seemed, not at all what I expected (I thougth in a perfect shave, the razor glides over your face).

And yet, even though he shaved me somewhat more roughly than I would ever have shaved myself, my face is perfectly comfortable now. The first straight razor shave I ever had, about 8 years ago, left my face a bloody mess.

Anyway, afterwards, I asked him for some pointers, and he showed me how to shave using a feather with a red plastic blank in it. Now this was a really special shave I had received (one I'd love to duplicate for myself over and over), but some of the things he said were clearly against the grain of what is conventional wisdom here.

First off, he said to hold the razor at a 45 degree angle to my face on the cheek. I would assume that if I did that at home I'd end up with a nice red face. Is this possible just because he used disposable blades?

Second, he said not to shave with my left hand, but instead showed me a couple different grips to use with my right.

Third, he showed me how to strop a razor by saying that you had to push the spine really hard into the hanging strop. When he did this, the strop was bowed at about a 30 degree angle. Now his strop was very well broken in, so I assume he uses it. Can this be good for a razor in any universe?