Thread: First two SE shaves done :(

i disagree with you, firestart, 1,2, and 3 are to blame if a person isn't getting close enough shaves, but i've done all three for one reason or another, and they don't really cause razor burn.

They don't directly cause it, but if your shaves aren't effective, you are more likely to apply more pressure and pressure = burn. Therefore, do not argue with the Zen-Budha Master


Edit:
Also, when your angle is off, you are more likely to scrape the skin instead of cutting the whiskers and may even throw a few more ineffective passes that will just cause further irritation, a.k.a. razor burn. QED

yeah, i wasn't arguing about the angle, just the three items you listed. if those things were contributing to the problem, then the real problem was still going too hard or going over it too many times, as i initially suggested.

so, now you see that the student has become the master...

The student will become the master once he realizes that if the first domino doesn't fall, others won't either. The reasons I listed are the main causes of too much pressure and too many passes.

alright, rather than go back and forth about this, let's wait and let the guy who posted first weigh in and see what he thinks. we could be missing the point entirely.

its already been mentioned but blade angle, pressure, and soap slickness are major factors. The blade shouldnt be pulling though. if you have bad angles you would miss hair or cut yourself, and if you use to much pressue you would get bad razor burn and possibly cut yourself, but it still shouldnt pull.

A few things to think about:
1. your face will need to adjust to using a straight, at first most of us had some razor burn and discomfort, especially if you are switching from a disposable to a straight, and not going to a DE in between. Keep in mind this is really the first time a real blade has ever touched your face.

2. I was very careful when I was stropping one of my first razors and I still managed to dull the edge accidentally. If the blade is actually pulling this could be a possibility as much as I know you would hate to admit it.

3. If you have pulling from a dull blade you WILL have razor burn, especially if you have sensitie skin.

4. technique, technique, technique. When I first started with a Lynn honed razor, I had razor burn after my shave, mostly from using to much pressure. I then worked on lowering the presure and also found an aftershave regiment that worked well for me, and now that same razor gives a very comfortable shave, so it really wasnt the razor at all.

5. If you can get a straight razor shave from a barbershop, even if they use a feather or DE blade, and notice that it feels more like a massage than a shave simply because the blade is barely touching your face. I still have not achieved this amount of skill, and still have to remind myself that I using to much pressure on certain spots, or that I need to use a different angle on my neck and chin than I do on my cheeks. Its an art, and if you were a pro over night it would be a pretty boring experience when all said and done. This is why the true great shavers and honemeisters (of which I am neither) have so much pride in their shaves and sharp blades.

Sec & Cyrano, take note. These gentlemen know what they're talking about. Remove any one of the afformentioned priorities, add no extra pressure with the blade and your face wont feel nice.

X

[QUOTE=JLStorm]
2. I was very careful when I was stropping one of my first razors and I still managed to dull the edge accidentally. If the blade is actually pulling this could be a possibility as much as I know you would hate to admit it.

3. If you have pulling from a dull blade you WILL have razor burn, especially if you have sensitie skin.

[QUOTE]

Cyrano I see where you are coming from, and I agree if there is pulling its because of a dull razor, but you have to remember during the first few shaves its pretty hard to figure out exactly what is happening because so many feelings are so new. Is it the razor pulling, is it to much friction, is it the angle. It is even harder to diagnose the problem since sec really is just making guesses, as are we. The more feedback he gets the better.

I just remember when I started shaving I REALLY had trouble admitting to myself that my blade might not be sharp enough...it feels like personal defeat sometimes, especially if the user dulls the blade.

Sec, hang in there, and really if you FEEL that hairs are being pulled and not cut, it may be worth having the edge refreshed. When hairs are being pulled by a dull razor the closest way I can describe the feeling is trying to shave with a crappy electric razor. I hope that helps.

Originally Posted by cyrano138

i disagree with you, firestart, 1,2, and 3 are to blame if a person isn't getting close enough shaves, but i've done all three for one reason or another, and they don't really cause razor burn.

okay. i'm quoting myself because, obviously, i want to be really really clear, and i want to do it with all proper deference to those who've helped me start SE shaving. having said that, x, i have removed all the aforementioned priorities without incurring razor burn.

everyone just sees that i have only 135 posts and assumes that the guy with 1300 posts is right. granted, i've only been doing this for two months, but i think that's enough time accumulate valid experience, and what i'm saying is this:

everyone seems to be overlooking the possibility that he's working with a dull razor. firestart presented three rules which were intended to prevent razor irritation. i disagree--i have, at one time or another (with a sharp razor), neglected to

1 prepare and lather properly--no irritation

2 stretch the skin--no irritation

3 follow the grain exactly--still no irritation

conversely, i've done all three of these things almost to the letter (with a dull razor), and gotten bad razor burn.
my conclusion: these three things are neither necessary, nor suffcient to prevent razor burn. the blade must be sharp.

i understand that these things will make the difference between a good shave and a great shave, and also that many of you may have had different experiences. but as long as one person (me) has had the experience i'm describing above, it is adequate proof (by counter example) that the statement, "items 1, 2, and 3 are necessary and sufficient conditions to prevent razor burn," is not true.

it is my assertion, then, that sec's real concern should be the sharpness of the blade. in my experience, shaving technique was not difficult at all to acquire. the day i got my shave-ready (about a week after i started) i got a great, close, irritation-free shave. the real challenge has been sharpening and maintenance of the blade. for this reason, when someone assumes a beginner is having trouble because of the thing that (in my experience) was very simple to learn and not the thing that was (in my experience) very difficult, i feel obligated to offer a dissenting opinion. when firestart correctly (in my opinion) pointed out that the angle and pressure might be to blame, he should have stopped there, because the three reasons that followed are not causally linked to bad angle and pressure, as my experience has shown, and despite his otherwise clever domino analogy.

in mathematics and logic, all that is required to disprove a theorem is ONE counterexample. if i've understood firestart's assertion--that 1,2, and 3 will prevent razor burn--and if you believe that i am not lying about my experience, the logic is solid. there isn't any room to argue. so when people dismiss careful thought with platitudes, i am inexplicably compelled to spend an hour in front of my computer arguing about shaving with folks halfway across the world.

please don't take it as hostility, i love the forum and everyone here has been great and generous, and i hope that i've contributed, too. i try to pass on as much as has been passed on to me and to do so in the same spirit. i make this argument in the spirit of dialectic. it seems that the more individual experiences we consider, the more accurate our knowledge will be. i'm throwing a few smileys in here at the end to show that this isn't anything but a light-hearted exercise in logic.