Thread: I need some help, please.

Welcome to Straight Razor Place...Patience is the key...Don't beat yourself up.....Your struggle is part of the learning curve.....Stay with it !

Originally Posted by MilesVeritatis

....snip...
I went back to the hone and tried 15 strokes on the 4000 and 15 strokes on the 8000, it still wont pass the HHT with hair from either my badger brush or my head.
....snip...

The 4K/8K hone responds well to the
pyramid method.
Pyramid honing guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki

It is as close to a formula as you are likely to find.
It works.

Also: It can be repeated if after stropping
and a shave test the edge needs more work.

It expect that the bevel is set with a 1k hone!
Yet the time spend on the 4k side will eventually improve
a bevel that is almost set.
The pyramid method is a workhorse technique
that works well with the 4k/8k workhorse hone.

The hanging hair test is a pain in the you know what...
It does help to you a wild hair to explore the length
of the edge to look for 'differences'. A hair skates on
dull and sticks a little to enough to get sliced on sharp
depending on the hair.

The direction of the hair can matter. Hair has a top
and a bottom direction. Shampoo and conditioner
matter. Oil on a blade will also negate the HHT.
Since most honemasters lightly oil a blade when
done it is important to know that that protective oil
will kill the HHT. This is why it is such a hated
and maligned test in my opinion.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

The 4K/8K hone responds well to the
pyramid method.
Pyramid honing guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki

It is as close to a formula as you are likely to find.
It works.

Also: It can be repeated if after stropping
and a shave test the edge needs more work.

It expect that the bevel is set with a 1k hone!
Yet the time spend on the 4k side will eventually improve
a bevel that is almost set.
The pyramid method is a workhorse technique
that works well with the 4k/8k workhorse hone.

The hanging hair test is a pain in the you know what...
It does help to you a wild hair to explore the length
of the edge to look for 'differences'. A hair skates on
dull and sticks a little to enough to get sliced on sharp
depending on the hair.

The direction of the hair can matter. Hair has a top
and a bottom direction. Shampoo and conditioner
matter. Oil on a blade will also negate the HHT.
Since most honemasters lightly oil a blade when
done it is important to know that that protective oil
will kill the HHT. This is why it is such a hated
and maligned test in my opinion.

He is exactly correct.. I had the same problem when I first stated doing my own honing... and then eventually went to the pyramid..

Also that many strokes on your stone you might be causing a wire edge and not even knowing it, I was doing the exact same thing and then when put under a loop I finally saw it... AAAANNNNNDDDD Norton stone that are new have a coating on them.. You really wont know it unless you flatten them.. Before you do ANYTHING else make sure you flatten your stones.. it will take a while if yours has the coating on them.. especially the 8k.. it will take the longest.. The pyramid prevents a wire edge (or at least helps to prevent it)...

Well, I tried a shave today, made two passes and did nothing but scrape the crap out of my face. No razor burn that I can tell, but dang was it uncomfortable. No hair was removed at all.

I'm soaking my Norton stone currently, then I'm gonna give it a good rub down with my Nagura stone. Once I do that, I'm going to try the pyramid method you guys suggested. Will let you know.

If this doesn't work, I'm just gonna send my razor off to Straight Razor Designs for honing.


EDIT: Carefully went through the pyramid, not one iota of change. Cut myself. Gonna let a professional do this.

As stated above, at this point the HHT is absolutely worthless and meaningless to you. Get a properly honed blade, shave with it to demonstrate that it is a good shaving edge. THEN, try the HHT. Use multiple hair, and apply the test up and down the blade. Note how the hair acts. Maybe, it slices the hair (as you described), or cuts it cleanly, or just vibrates the hair violently. Whatever it does, however it acts, for that hair, that is a successful test.

Cutting hair... meaningless in and of itself.

none of my razors pass the HHT. pretty sure my hair is made from the same stuff that Wolverines claws are made of.
But my razors shave my face really well, which is the only test I care about.

If you are honing for yourself, then it is somewhat true that the shave test is the only test that counts. If you are honing for others, then the shave test is not the only test that counts, and itself is not sufficient. For, a good shaving blade, with your use of portions of the blade, might have a dull tip and heel region for example.

I encourage you to continue using the HHT. Just be ready for the not inconsequential effort required to make it useful.

I to had a horrible time getting the hang of honing a razor. I spent so many hours trying and retrying but never could get a sharp razor in the end. Had 3 people sit with me and watch/teach and still poor success. Then I was watching one of Glen's videos and he mentioned the word Torque while honing a razor, not a "Hey Dumby you need to apply Torque" but more a passing comment. The light went on in my head and off to the stones I went. A razor I had issues with and was worried was soon going to be honed into a letter opener had a bevel set in less than 10 minutes. 2nd razor, same result, 3rd razor same thing. So I did some searching on here and sure enough it had been talked about at length.

Here is a snip from another thread where Glen mentions the Torque in more detail

Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is a theory, if you look way back in the honing forum about "Torque on the Edge" You will find Randydance and I discussing it

Basically the short version is when you hone, you should be applying a tiny bit of torque toward the edge rather than the spine...
The more you hone the better you get, the better you get, the more all this becomes automatic...

Not sure if this will be the answer for you or not, but thinking about how you need to maintain angle while sharpening a knife (no spine to help) this creates that Torque for you. Razor on the other hand without the torque action your honing the spine more than the edge.

Well stated Blix. I am not in the honing stage as of yet, but I would get wrapped around the axel when my razor would "fail" the HHT after stropping. But after str8 shaving for three months, I learned all that matters is the shave test. No more HHT is one less monkey on my back.

MV,

You never mentioned if you lapped your stones. Did you lap (flatten) them before your bouts with honing? It's important to have all the sections of the hone hit all the parts of the bevel uniformly.

I hone my own razors and started thinking that because I've been sharpening knives and woodworking tools for about 50 years that it was a gimme. It isn't. Be patient and follow the advice of the honesters, gurus, and honemeisters. They've been through the learning curves and their advice is well worth heeding.

good luck, good shaving