Thread: Why Beginners Shouldn't Try To Hone

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Really? How will someone who is learning to shave know what a true "shave ready" razor is? Maybe I'm just mis-understanding your statement...I hope.

I learned to hone before I learned to shave, but there was a period of time when I was learning both at the same time. I don't think that was or is a problem. I had a Dovo Shavette that I was shaving with, so I had no problem knowing what a shave-ready blade would feel like. I was shaving with a shave-ready razor, but at the same time I was honing, if you'll excuse the pun, my honing skills by practicing on junk razors, getting help from AFDavisII in person and reading in the Library and elsewhere.

My point was that it is possible to learn both at the same time, but combining honing and shaving without a shave-ready model can be problematic. The first proper straight I shaved with was one I had honed. I knew from reading here that I would not want to "send out" my blades to be honed. I did not want to be dependent upon someone else for sharpness. So I learned to hone while learning to shave. It can be done. However, during the entire time I did have a shave-ready blade, a Shavette armed with Feathers, to show me how to evaluate my honing as it progressed.

Then RAD hit, I already had all the stones I needed, and now I just think about the millions I'm saving not buying cartridges.

Originally Posted by LameBMX

Personally I prefer to take to the skies in my G2 /joke

Out of curiousity, have you come across a "shave ready" off the classifieds that would be worse than the average factory edge? I cannot say that I have had a "terrible" edge off the classified's, but I have had them lacking. More than likely that person was buying razors, honing them, and selling them. They were gaining experience. Many of us did this/have done this to gain experience. Personally I didn't sell any razors on SRP classified's until I had close to 100 blades under my belt as I didn't want my reputation to be tarnished. I was blessed with a face of steel, sandstone with embedded shards of glass would be shave ready for me. /joke I am now taking you meaning to be distrust of the average classifieds advertiser proclaiming "shave ready" when the edge is not to your personal liking. Correct. Personally (considering that I hone) I only buy a razor for the razor, not the edge. Is the feedback system in use enough to help new buyers? I believe the feedback system we have is just fine. A buyer should look at a prospective purchase to see if a seller stands behind the workmanship if they are purchasing a restored or shave ready razor. IMO, a good seller will always offer a guarantee and be quite critical of their craftsmanship. Are there many in the classifieds who ungentlemanly pronounce their edges "shave ready" which are at an average factory edge level? I don't believe anyone here (they usually get weeded out quickly by our own members) who is ungentlemanly. This answer goes back to why I don't think the average new SR shaver should try to learn to shave and hone at the same time...a new person doesn't typically know what a true "shave-ready" razor is unless they are using one honed by a pro. I will use myself for example: When I started to hone I used my own blades and my big ole' ego got into the way because I was proud of myself that I was honing blades & using my own blades. I called them "shave ready" and was pleased with the edges, until I sent them to a pro. The pro said they were lacking...a lot. Could you idea of being "shave ready" be skewed by your own abilities? Yes and yours will to as your knowledge grows & you gain experience. My idea of what I thought was a shave ready edge and now is a world apart from one another.

Please dont take any of that in a negative way, I am trying to learn more.

I take no offense at all. Anyone who is trying to learn more, even if we cannot agree, is cool by me. Let me start out by stating this: Edges are just like opinions, we all have one. Our opinions are based upon our education and experience. As our education and experience grows, hopefully so does the quality of our edges. Once a person gets satisfied with their edges, send it to a trusted veteran honer and ask for their opinion on the edge you produced on the razor. I still think someone should keep a reference blade too...
Scott

Originally Posted by shooter74743

I simply feel that if I can keep a new SR shaver from getting discouraged, I have done my job.

Well said, sir.

The fear of discouraging beginners from continuing their SR journey (with us), is I think what's at the core of this thread.
If we are catering to the largest common denominator, then I agree with the OP.

However, not all SR beginners are the same.
I know many SR beginners who were sharpening knives long before they began shaving with SR.
For one they will hone very competently with a few practice, and two, they won't be discouraged by a dull razor.
If anything, the challenge will only fuel them to pursue the sport further.

And why I will never be a honemeist or sell a blade as shave ready. I may never be able to feel those differences, I couldnt tell the difference between a fresh DE blade and one with 10 shaves on it. It had to so bad it pretty much refused to cut hair before I would put a fresh one in it.

I honestly thought that, in a proper way, sellers on the classified were pretty much top-notch edges. Something worthy of being a reference blade.

And I whole heartedly agree that a new person should not try both, they should get shaving down, then work on honing.

Selling blades as shave ready here or anywhere can be a very slippery slope even for the best of honers.
Your edges may be perfect shave ready blades from the gitgo,but as soon as someone gets it and wants to try out the new strop they just bought (and have not learned to use) your blades are toast and your reputation may also be tarnished as a result.
I have bought about 12 blades on SRP,two from a long time site veteran (blades are always perfect)maybe 6 from a vendor (again,perfect) 3 others sold as shave ready were not even close out of the box.
Shave ready is a very subjective phrase.

Originally Posted by xuz

Well said, sir. thank you

The fear of discouraging beginners from continuing their SR journey (with us), is I think what's at the core of this thread.
If we are catering to the largest common denominator, then I agree with the OP.thank you

However, not all SR beginners are the same.Absolutely right
I know many SR beginners who were sharpening knives long before they began shaving with SR.yep
For one they will hone very competently with a few practiceNOPE, and two, they won't be discouraged by a dull razorA dull razor for shaving is spooky sharp in knife standards.
If anything, the challenge will only fuel them to pursue the sport further. yep, challenged the heck out of me...and frustrated the stuffing out of me at the same time

I was with you all the way till you said knife sharpeners will have a easy journey to learni9ng to hone. Where most knives are called spooky sharp...that's where we start with straight razors. I was one of those guys who could put scary sharp edges on knives & figured it would be easy...boy was I wrong. None of us will ever be a honemiester...that's Lynn & Lynn only. Time at the stones will earn you the title of a veteran honer or pro though.

Never give up on chasing a perfect shave or pushing an edge on a particular razor to the max...just because it's FUN!

The very thing the OP is reporting happened to me today, I went to use a razor I haven't used in a while and last I used it I thought it was a great shaver, today it was tugging and not cutting very well. My pressure has gotten very very light and the razor needs a trip to the hones

Originally Posted by shooter74743

I was with you all the way till you said knife sharpeners will have a easy journey to learni9ng to hone. Where most knives are called spooky sharp...that's where we start with straight razors. I was one of those guys who could put scary sharp edges on knives & figured it would be easy...boy was I wrong. None of us will ever be a honemiester...that's Lynn & Lynn only. Time at the stones will earn you the title of a veteran honer or pro though.

Never give up on chasing a perfect shave or pushing an edge on a particular razor to the max...just because it's FUN!

To show that we are all different, I find it much harder to put a good edge on a knife than a razor. I am very happy with the honing I do on my razors but am looking at 2 filet knifes I am working on that are here on my desk and am disappointed that I have such a hard time getting them to what I consider usable. For me having a built in jig on a razor is the cats meow. Sharpening a filet knife with a smile on one side and a big frown on the other with the flexible blade to boot is a much harder challenge. But as I said we are all different.

Tim

Originally Posted by ace

I honed the first straight I ever shaved with.

I'm sure I'll hone the first straight I shave with, too... But not for a while, yet. For now, I'll let a pro do it.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Where most knives are called spooky sharp...that's where we start with straight razors. I was one of those guys who could put scary sharp edges on knives & figured it would be easy...boy was I wrong. ....
Never give up on chasing a perfect shave or pushing an edge on a particular razor to the max...just because it's FUN!

After purchasing "shave ready" razors from vendors here and elsewhere it became clear to me just how relative that term can be. The best examples became touchstones for my own efforts while learning and the worst examples after my practicing on them became proofs of what had been learned.

I never again will call one of my knife sharpening jobs "razor sharp". My first open blade shave was with a pocket knife I honed beyond scary sharp as in too sharp to be a practical tool. It did shave down a cheek after a fashion but it prompted me to buy a straight razor and push for a sharper edge. After wearing out a couple of stones and grinding down some razors my edges are now so far beyond the best Japanese steel knives I own that I rather like to forget what I once thought was sharp. I just didn't know what I didn't know.

I learned how to get truly sharp from reading this site and lots and lots and lots of practice.
In about another 39800 blades I might try to turn pro.