Thread: Full hollow vs half hollow ground

I've been using a straight razor for several months now on a daily basis. My collection of razors includes (2) Thiers Issard, (2) Dovos and (1) unknown make 5/8 razor. I have gotten good at stropping and honing and can get my razors very, very sharp. At least sharp enough to pass the hanging hair test. But, I have noticed that my two full hollow ground "singing" razors get dull very quickly and need to be stropped not only after each pass, but sometimes during as well. My half hollows can make it through a pass or two, but definitely need stropping before my third against the grain pass. All of my razors are 5/8. My questions are: Do I have a thick beard needing a 6/8 or maybe a 7/8 razor? Or is it normal for razors to dull quickly during a shave needing stropping several times?

Many thanks, Daren

Daren,
I believe that you have some tough stubble growing out of your face. Mine is mediocre, not too light not too tough but all of my blades can survive a 3 even a 4 pass shave and most of them are full hollows, with a good portion being VERY delicate grinds even for that category. Stiffer grinds like 1/2 and 1/4 hollows have more metal backing the bevels so they are less likely to go out of alignment while mowing down the tough stuff. Instead of going with a bigger blade, I'd go for an even stiffer grind (wedge) if I were you. They usually come in the 6/8 and above sizes, but I don't think a 7/8 would shave any better than a 6/8. Once you get in that size range, it's more of an "i feel more comfortable with bigger+heavier blades" issue.

My dad told me a story once of getting a shave with a straight razor at a barber's. The barber complained to my dad that his beard was so course it kept dulling his razor. My dad said the barber had to strop several times during the shave and told him not to come back! I suppose I too have this coarse beard. I ordered a 6/8Thiers Super Gnome not long ago as I was thinking I needed to experiment some. Thanks for the input. I was hoping someone would confirm my ideas about the 6/8. I'll let you kow how it works when it arrives.

Daren.

It depends on the exact nature of the grind and how hard the steel is. Some of the flexier full hollows dull quickly on my beard, but i've got other full hollows that are just a little stiffer that hold up just fine. Generally a quick stropping before I go against the grain does the trick, though even then the blades tend to need a refresh within 3-7 shaves.

The Henckels Friodurs are full hollow razors that are pretty highly recommended for tough beards.

Any quality razor, properly honed and stropped, should make it through a shave without dulling. It almost sounds like you've got a wire edge on your razors. They'll cut great for a few minutes, but dull out quickly when they contact the hair. Also, check your face prep...try shaving straight out of the shower, or use hot towels. You may be doing all this correctly, I don't know. I know that I have pretty tough stubble, though, and I've never had one dull halfway through a shave.

Joe, from the description it looks like the mid-shave stropping restores their cutting ability, which would not be the case with wire edges.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Joe, from the description it looks like the mid-shave stropping restores their cutting ability, which would not be the case with wire edges.

You may be right, but stropping a razor is analogous to steeling a butcher knife. You can line the wire up again and get some more cutting out of it. Sometimes, the wire edge will get bent to one side, rather than break off. The bending will slow it down, and stropping will center the wire again. Eventually, it will break off, but you can stretch it by stropping. Now, I'm not sure if that's what's happening here...just throwing out suggestions.

(edit: this post is in response to joe's first post, not the one just above)

Joe, that hasn't been my experience at all, not on my own blades, and not with any honemeister-honed razors. Even when sharpened equally well, all of my Friodurs and Swedes and my one TI make it through a shave without stropping, but only one of the rest will do it (a 8/8 W&B frameback). A quick stropping (~ 15 laps) gets them in good enough shape to go against the grain comfortably though. I've got a really flexible "singing" blade that needs stropping mid-pass, so I rarely use it except on the weekend.

In my experience, finer grit finishes fare worse than coarser finishes; 0.25 micron edges won't last a single pass even on my best razors, 0.5 micron does better but only one of my razors will go an entire shave with it, even my friodurs need stropping mid-shave. If I stop at 1 micron then the Friodurs will go an entire shave just fine, but my Wade and Butchers still need a mid-shave stropping. I rarely go finer than 1 micron nowadays, and for most I stop at either the 8k or the translucent arkansas.

I've got one razor that stands above the rest, the TI Pierre Theirs LE. With that one I can finish the blade on .5 micron chromium oxide, and it will make it through both passes of the shave without stropping and at the end it will still pop the hairs on the underside of my arm (though not quite as readily as it did immediately after stropping). And it sounds like papabull has hand-forged a razor for himself that performs similarly, so I'm hopeful that I can one day enjoy the sort of shaving performance the rest of you are currently enjoying.

You may have something there especially since more delicate grinds are more prone to overhoning. Daren will have to figure out which case applies to him.

Originally Posted by mparker762

Joe, that hasn't been my experience at all, not on my own blades, and not with any honemeister-honed razors. Even when sharpened equally well, all of my Friodurs and Swedes and my one TI make it through a shave without stropping, but only one of the rest will do it (a 8/8 W&B frameback). A quick stropping (~ 15 laps) gets them in good enough shape to go against the grain comfortably though. I've got a really flexible "singing" blade that needs stropping mid-pass, so I rarely use it except on the weekend.

In my experience, finer grit finishes fare worse than coarser finishes; 0.25 micron edges won't last a single pass even on my best razors, 0.5 micron does better but only one of my razors will go an entire shave with it, even my friodurs need stropping mid-shave. If I stop at 1 micron then the Friodurs will go an entire shave just fine, but my Wade and Butchers still need a mid-shave stropping. I rarely go finer than 1 micron nowadays, and for most I stop at either the 8k or the translucent arkansas.

I've got one razor that stands above the rest, the TI Pierre Theirs LE. With that one I can finish the blade on .5 micron chromium oxide, and it will make it through both passes of the shave without stropping and at the end it will still pop the hairs on the underside of my arm (though not quite as readily as it did immediately after stropping). And it sounds like papabull has hand-forged a razor for himself that performs similarly, so I'm hopeful that I can one day enjoy the sort of shaving performance the rest of you are currently enjoying.

Hmm...maybe my stubble ain't as tough as it thought it was. I've just never had one I had to strop mid-shave, and I've gone through a few. I suppose experience varies (obviously). Mine wasn't meant to be the definitive answer, just a theory. I suppose whatever it takes to make it shave right is what you have to do...it just seems wrong to have to strop a razor in the middle of the shave. My experience may be a little skewed, though, since I'm normally shaving with more than one razor...it seems I only shave to test nowadays. (and as Martha Stewart says, "That's a good thing")