Thread: honing help

I’ll give the background first: I’m new to honing, but have managed to “maintain” several razors using my Norton 4/8 with 3/5, 1/5, etc. pyramids using the X-pattern. My Norton has been lapped and cleaned with a scotch-brite pad.

Last week, I picked up a ¼ hollow Wacker from ShavingShop.com and forgot to get the honing service from John. I’ve been trying to get this razor up to snuff with no luck so far. Over a couple of sessions, I’ve done a total about 25 1/3, 3/5, 5/5 combos based on the less aggressive pyramid scheme posted in the help files. I’ve been testing on my thumb and leg hair throughout (also test shaved after the first session). The toe 1/3rd of the razor seems to be getting there, but the middle and heel are not.

Under the microscope, the toe looks like a nice clean edge. The middle and heel seem to have a line of what looks kind of like multi-color, reflective “bubbles” along the cutting edge. Does this mean anything in particular?

My questions are: is it “normal” for a new razor to take this many passes before becoming shave-ready or is my technique just that bad? Is there a way to work the middle and heel without over-honing the toe? At what point should I worry about damaging this razor and send it out to a pro? Thanks for the help.


Jordan

It's not "normal" for it to take a new razor to get sharp, but that's deceptive. First off, the Wackers are normally veery hard tempered, so that's part of it, I think. Also, each razor kinda has its own 'personality', and responds differently to honing, so saying any razor is "normal" is somewhat hard to quantify.
Your description of the 'bubbles' almost sounds like a wire edge. Try backhoning 5-10 times on the 8k side of the stone. Some folks are against backhoning, but it works well for me. After the backhoning, look at it again under the 'scope, and see if it changed any. If it did, it was probably a wire edge, and you should've gotten rid of it.

As far as the toe being honed but not the rest, I have two theoretic options:
1. If I was right about the 'bubbles' being a wire edge, and you removed it, no worries. Hit it a few more licks on the 8k, then test again. It might not be quite sharp enough, but you should feel more evenness in the sharpness of the edge. You can deal with that.
2. You're picking up the blade when you reach the toe of the blade, putting more pressure on that portion of the blade. Slow down, concentrate on your stroke, and make sure the entire blade remains in contact with the stone, and especially concentrate on maintaining even pressure throughout the stroke. Also, make sure your stone is lapped flat.

This might not've helped a bit, but I hope it did. You can always Skype me, and I can try to do a bit more there.

Take it easy,
Joe


Oops, thought of another option...you're putting too much pressure on the heel end of the stroke, which would be causing the wire edge in the first place, and letting up at the toe. When sharpening knives, you want the wire edge. That lets you know when to stop "grinding" and start polishing. Once you've removed the wire, you have a sharp, durable edge. You deal with it as in #2.

Originally Posted by jnich67

Last week, I picked up a ¼ hollow Wacker from ShavingShop.com and forgot to get the honing service from John. I’ve been trying to get this razor up to snuff with no luck so far.

My Wacker is a bit of a pain to hone and it's a full hollow; I bet the quarters are a lot of fun. Keep in mind that quarter hollows take longer to hone anyway, a really hard one is gonna take awhile. I wouldn't even bother with the less agressive pyramid on a razor like that, the "agressive" pyramid is probably "less aggressive" on that razor.

I'm not sure where you are seeing the bubbles, if they're hanging off the edge then it's probably a wire edge, if they're on the bevel then it's probably microchipping caused by some imperfection on your hone.

Jordan, I believe your technique is to be suspect in this case. When doing the pyramid on the 3" Norton, you are likely to underhone the middle and the heel. If I were you, I'd re-do the honing job. Here's how to establish a more even bevel:
1) Angle the blade on the hone 30 degrees
2) Go straight across starting with a bit of pressure on the heel and transitioning to the toe.
As for the honing process, I'll give you the general guidelines that I'd go by for a relatively new but unhoned blade:
1) Tape the spine
2) Do about 20-30 passes on the 4k, gradually decreasing the pressure.
3) Do the same on the 8k, also decreasing the pressure
If the blade is not sharp enough by then, take the tape off, do 3 x-patern 1-5s, but I have a variation that allows the heel to get its TLC on 3" hones: Bring the blade about 1/3 of the way across the hone before bringing it down.

And if you try all these suggestions, and it still ain't workin' for ya...send it to me. (Only 9 more to get 1000)

Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions guys - I'll give them all a shot....eventually.

Joe, keep an eye out. This razor may be coming your way for some work while I flail away on some of my cheaper ones.


Jordan

I'd also recommend not using the X motion and going straight along the hone with a slight Rolling Hone motion from heel to tip. I find the edge of the hone can easily ruin several laps of good honing with one small slip.

X

Only if you don't fix up the edges with the initial lapping.

Just thought I'd report back on my progress. I had at it again this weekend. I gave up on the X pattern for this project and started going straight across at a 30-degree angle. I think poor technique on my X-pattern was a major problem here. I'll keep working the X on my practice blades though.

I did about 15 laps on the 4K then about 25 on the 8K. Tested on leg hair then another 3/5, 1/5, 1/5 and on to the pasted paddle. It seemed pretty close so I test shaved. Then did another 3/5, 1/5, 1/5 and hit the 1 and .5 on the paddle again.

I was able to complete a 2 pass shave this morning. Its fine on the cheeks and 'burns, but pulling a bit in the chin area. I'm almost there. I think I'll go a few more gentle laps on the 8K and see how we do. Thanks again for the help!

Jordan

Well done, lad!