Thread: Day One

Today was my first SR shave. I have a Dovo 5/8 (carbon steel, roundtip), a strop and a Norton 4k/8k from ClassicShaving. I also picked up Lynn's video, the John West video and watched both several times before trying anything. With regards to honing, I've been reading here that "less is more" so I stropped lightly 30 times and here's how it went:
* - After full prep (hot towels, etc.) I did a N-S pass on my cheeks. I feel like I may have well used my Buck hunting knife. Clearly not shave ready.
* - Hit the Norton for a pyramid of 3/3/1/3/1/5 (as Lynn recommended in his video), stropped 20 more times.
* - Results were a little better but still aweful.
* - did another Norton pyramid, then stropped and made my final attempt of the day. Better, but still unusable.
* My observations are: (i) I didn't get any cuts/nicks so even with a dull (probably dangerous) blade it was a little more forgiving that I anticipated; (ii) keeping the skin tight seems absolutely critical; (iii) I'm a long way away from feeling comfortable attacking my chin and throat with the blade.

As I don't want to overhone right out of the gates, I'm looking for suggestions. The razor feels OK with the thumbnail test (but I've never done this test before), but is nowhere near the hangin hair test.

As an aside, I want to thank all of the folks on this site who (even though they don't know it) got me to try this skill/art. I'm committed to learning it and know it will take time and patience.

MMMMMM, I typically don't use a pyramid scheme on a new razor. I wouldn't be afraid to overhone as all you need to do to correct it is to back hone a few passes.

My secret, and please don't let anyone else know, is to do lots of passes on 8K alone. A little pressure at first, then head towards no pressure and a very slow stroke.

Remember, same pressure, angle, and distance on both sides of the razor is critical.

Lap the 8K before you start.

Again, this is my technique, probably not for everyone.

The key is to smooth out all that 4K nonsense that is used to get the razor bevel nice (a requirement you may have passed a long time ago) and get the razor shaving perfect.

Try about 40 strokes on 8K alone with descending pressure. If you think you've overhoned just go back 4 strokes on 8k. Keep smoothing out the edge. Shave test after about 30 passes and every 10 after that. See if that makes for some improvement.

Strop lightly, the edge will get wicked smooth and sharp.

What Alan says is good advice. I found my Norton 4K/8K was not ready to hone razors on when it arrived, it felt smooth but definately needed lapping.

Just get a piece of glass or an old mirror on your workbench, get it wet and place a piece of 800 grit wet/dry paper on it, then wet the abrasive side liberally and rub the hone all over it. Afterwards rinse/scrub the stone to get any loose particles off the surface, like little embedded bits of abrasive that may have come off the wet/dry paper. Then it should be fine to use.

As Alan says just use the 8K side, between 15 to 40 gentle strokes. The key is to not be tempted to put any weight on the razor to make it cut faster, just use the weight of the razor and keep it flat.

The few brand spankin' new razors I have had a hand at I have followed the same process with:
1. Three 1/3 sets, HHT - This rarely makes the razor perform the HHT well for me
2. 3/3 1/5 1/5 1/3 1/3 HHT - This sometimes gets the razor to perform better
3. A small pyramid up to 5/5, HHT - This usually does the trick. If not I do a pyramid up to 10/5.

Remember to use some pressure as you start the pramid and ease off. I also use less pressure on the 8k side than the 4k. Too little pressure overall or too much on the 8k side will overhone my edges every time.

X

I think what the others have said is good advice. My only comment is that if this was your first shave with a straight, you shouldn't necessarily expect it to be smooth - I recall my first go felt like I was scraping my face off. Subtle angle adjustments, changes in pressure and confidence will all impact on how the shave feels, no matter how sharp the blade is.

For the brand new razor I wouldn't be hesitating to pull out my 1000 grit sandpaper. It can save a lot of frustration and time. Maybe 20 on the 1000, then to 4000, and final polish on the 8000...

Nenad

Ofcourse that works well too. I find that I spend a lot of time polishing what was already a decent bevel now mucked up with added striations of 4K (and 1K in your case).

I'd rather just evaluate the edge and build on the work done in the factory than starting over each time. The work done in the factory is done on higher than 4K. You don't always need to go back down.

Far less aggressive? Sure. Slower? Sure. But I'd rather hone slow, polish well and remove as little metal as required.

MTS, try some smoothing and see where you are, then go back to a little more pyramiding to continue removing metal. If its not sharp from the smoothing it should be there with one more pyramid series.

Either way, post again so we know where your at.

Nenad- Keep in mind the advice is for him. I won't argue with the way any experienced person wants to hone, hopefully we can agree that newbies should not be attacking new razors with 1K stones. If not, we have have to differ on this point. My apologies in advance.

I've recieved new razors that have passed the HHT simply by being stropped aggressively so perhaps its more an issue of our definition of new or where we're buying our razors.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Nenad- Keep in mind the advice is for him. I won't argue with the way any experienced person wants to hone, hopefully we can agree that newbies should not be attacking new razors with 1K stones. If not, we have have to differ on this point. My apologies in advance.

No need for apologies at all...

From what I've seen in the movies from DOVO and TI, the sharpening in the factory is often neglected step. Partly because the sharpness testing is almost impossible thing, and partly depending on various conditions, like condition of the sharpening stones, skill of the worker, weather it is his/hers first razor in the morning, or the last one in the day e.t.c. That is why accessing the quality of the hone job is very important, and yes, I have gotten new razors that shave ok with 20 or so 8000 passes, and razors that needed LOT's of work...

As for the newbie advice...
When I first started honing, it was all about "no pressure" on the hone. I took this advice like it was written, and of course, I spent a lot of time over the hone, going nowhere, and wondering what's wrong. Also, overhoning a razor is very difficult. It won't happen with couple, even ten 1-3 pyramids. At my start, I was also unnecessary concerned about it... The point is, no one can tell you what pressure is right. You have to feel that for yourself. It should be lighter from when you are sharpening a knife or a tool, but heavier than just floating the razor in the water on the hone... Maybe twice the weight of the razor?...

In any case, I would say the typical "refresh" pattern of 3/3/1/3/1/5 that MTS did on his razor is not enough on his factory new DOVO, especially with very light pressure... I would try maybe 10 on the 4000 and 20 on the 8000. and maybe repeat if the razor is not good enough... The problem with newbies is that they don't know what to expect from a sharp razor. That is why I would always recommend for a newbie to get a disposable blade straight razor, until he gets the technique right, than he can try and hone and shave with the new razor he got...


my 2 Denars...
Nenad

Yes, exactly. I had the same pressure issues when I started. It only took me 2 years to figure the problem out.

I think twice the weight of the blade is pretty good advice, and measurable for anyone vs. the term "light". I try to specify "just the weight of the blade" for those strokes that require it. Actually, I prefer to show people in person, and even that never works. LOL.

I also think we discussed various pressure issues for various grits a while ago, and the thousands of variations in action based on each pressure setting and each grit.

So, do I owe you change for 2 Denars? I never post more than the 2 cent fee.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

So, do I owe you change for 2 Denars? I never post more than the 2 cent fee.

Don't worry, it's on me 1 USD = 50 MKD, btw...

Nenad