Thread: A month into it, a few questions.

Hope you don't mind a few questions from a beginner.

I'm about a month into it. I bought a Dovo half hollow "Best Quality" from SRP (honed by Lynn). I figured I wouldn't spend big $ initially in case I destroy the razor during the long learning curve. The first few times were a bit scary but exciting. I watched every video I could find, read the beginners posts and advice, and took it all to heart. My first shave I only did my sideburn area. Over the course of the month I expanded out slowly. I'm now shaving my whole face. The razor quickly taught me to respect it, and pay attention; I've gotten a few nicks but nothing too bad. If I don't have the time, or I feel rushed or distracted, I don't shave. I feel comfortable shaving now, I'm no longer afraid of the blade. I'm at the point where I'm a sort of "discovery mode"; learning my face and how to hold the razor. I have the modular strop, and have been stropping away religiously. Sometimes at night while sitting with the wife at the TV, I'll strop away. I'm starting to find a natural rhythm stropping. I had a few questions:

1. I believe I read somewhere that you cannot "over strop". Is this true? I find it a relaxing thing to do. I'd like to keep stropping away at least until it's really second nature.

2. I find that, while shaving, if the blade angle is too shallow, the blade sleds over the stubble, not cutting it. If I increase the angle, then I hear the "raspy cat tongue" noise and the blade cuts the whiskers. But in this case I find I have to go over the same spot a bunch of times, leaving more irritation than I suspect is necessary. Being a month into it, I assume my technique still has a long way to go, but I'm wondering if I should worry at this point about stropping with some paste. Does a razor in the hand of a newbie dull faster than a seasoned shaver? A newbie shaver like me with a new SRD razor doesn't really know what a dull razor feels like. I don't have a feel for how much of it is my technique and how much of it is the razor losing edge.

3. I figured I'd wait 6-8 months before even thinking about honing. I figure before I learn to hone I should learn to strop with paste.

4. When looking at the microscope images of honed bevels, the "hone scratches" are always at an angle to the edge. I assume this is because the blade is honed in an X pattern? Would a blade honed perpendicular on a wide hone give a better shave? or does the final polishing make it a moot point?

5. My strop came with some rough leather in addition to the smooth leather. I've been doing 30 strops on the felt, then 30 on the smooth leather. When should the rough leather come into play?

6. Although I've no intention to hone anytime soon, it would be good to know what my razor was honed on. Does anyone know what stones/progression Lynn uses?

7. Would stropping after I shave help to remove more water molecules? I see a very faint, very teeny rust spot near the spine. I have now taken to coating my razor with light oil between shaves.

Thanks a bunch for any insight.

Dave

Salutations!

I would like to attempt to answer question 2...

In my experience with shaving, that "cat's tongue" you hear is normal for the razor you have. Hollow grounds give noise feedback much more than wedge style. However, the repeated passes and irritation is not normal. Some causes of this problem may be hair growth direction (such as spirals), angle in which you are passing (WTG, XTG, or ATG), or razor condition. I myself have a Dovo honed by Lynn and it is one of my go-to blades.

As for your stance on waiting to hone, that is perfectly fine. By waiting you allow yourself more time to become more familiar with holding the razor, the amount of pressure it takes to move the blade. I never have done pasted stopping, but I do hone. It's up to you if you want to use them.

As for stropping leather, I just use 25 laps on cloth and 50 on leather. I would assume you would want to use the rougher leather first, but don't quote me on that...

Hope some of this helps!

Sincerely,
JackofDiamonds

Questions are most certainly welcome and this is the forum for them.

I am by no means an expert. I have been using a straight for less than a year. However, I had many of the same questions as you have an answered them to my satisfaction over time.

Q1 - You can't really over strop - as long as you have good technique. If you are putting too much pressure on the blade edge you can "roll" the edge effectively dulling the blade. Check out the wiki here for details - Razor stropping - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Q2 - I have some experience with a dull razor having tried my hand at honing. Pastes don't make a razor sharper - they make a razor smoother. A well honed razor can be used straight off a 1K or 4k hone. When you feel pulling and tugging your razor isn't sharp enough.

Q3 - There are some great resources on this site with regards to honing. The recent Janorton challenge along with some tips from Lynn really helped me out.

Q4 - It is generally not advisable to do a straight perpendicular hone (at least from what I have read). There is some discussion of this in the Janorton thread as well.

Q5 - The rough leather is a great substrate onto which to apply some Chromium Oxide or some .5 micron diamond paste.

Q6 - Lynn has honed some of my razors. He used a Norton 4K, 8K and a 12K Naniwa if I recall. Though, I know he has a variety of hones and what he used on my razors may be different that what he uses on others.

Q7 - Stropping after shaving will introduce some air movement and a slight bit of heat, so possibly a benefit. The best thing to do is rinse with hot, hot water and then dry with a towel.

Enjoy the road and watch your wallet. It is very easy to develop some type of AD.

McP

Dave, your description of your first month seems packed with good sense! 'Seems like you're going so many things right, I doubt any revelations will be coming from others.

I have great respect for Afdavis on stropping. I kinda wish he would weigh in on the question of overstropping. I tend to think its impossible, but I'm not an expert. I tend to strop 'til I drop. No sane person strops as much as I tend to. I typically do 100 linen (flax fiber when I can get it), 100 latigo (for its heavy draw), and another 100 either horsehide, shell, or SRD Prem 1 (for its light draw). I repeat that after the shave, I know - I'm out of my mind, but I rarely have to touch up a blade.

On blade angle and how clean the stroke leaves the face, I suspect you're still discovering how to stretch and stroke each section. If you have a slender build w/ angular facial features - you have more obstacles to navigate w/ the edge. For example - inside the jawbone heading towards the neck. If this has a depression or concave surface, you'll have to get fairly deliberate and often quite creative on your stretching to get those depressions really smooth. An awful lot of threads talk about the first 6 mo. consisting of learning the shave - which mostly means finding the right stretches and strokes for each section.

On waiting to hone. You're probably in the 1% who do wait - and I'd say you're unusually wise to do so. I wasn't that smart, and suffered alot w/ bad edges as a result. The edges also made me take alot longer to learn the shave.

#4. A well honed edge could have a scratch pattern that looked like a game of Tick, Tack, Toe and shave beautifully. My bet is that all scratch patterns have given great shaves at one point or another.

#5. 'Need Afdavis or one of the pros to speak to this.

#6. Obviously Lynn would have to answer, but he's said that most often he'll use the naniwa synthetics (wonderful rocks), and finish w/ 5 strokes on felt treated w/ .5 micron diamond spray. It gives a distinct feel. Some like/dislike the feel of the diamond finish, but it does provide a very capable edge. I like the feel of the diamond finish much more after its had a week or so of shaves on it.

#7. Post shave stropping. I'd say its a good idea if only for the removal of microscopic chunga on the edge that will initiate oxidation/corrosion. The soap/cream will gladly start rust/pitting. Its good to rinse AND wipe the blade wet, then dry as well as you can. Stand it up in the open position so any moisture in the scales isn't held against the blade. If you get the pivot wet - dry it out before storing. Some guys dunk in alchohol to help the water disapate and evaporate. One member uses a blow dryer if he gets the pivot wet. After a while, you'll get so you can keep the pivot and the scales dry. Until then, strop after the shave, dry all of it thoroughly, and coat w/ some oil.

If you razor did not come w/ free touch-ups, I'd be glad to help. 'just the envelope/postage cost to return it to you.

It sounds like you're doing very well. I think you'll find it gets better, hits plateaus, then gets better... and so on.

Kudos for posting the questions. Again, uncommon smart.

1. With each stroke you run a small risk of rolling the edge. More strokes=more chances

2. IMO refusal to cut at all angles is a dulling razor. If you are going to touch up w diamond spray now may be your window.

3. I think paste is optional. Sounds like you are good at stropping. One way or another the next step is learning to hone. Play around w paste or the spray that came w your paddle. Get your second free honing. After that it's a bench stone for you!

4. No. The razor will require a certain stroke to hone it. You need to use the mmt and do what it tells you, wide or narrow hones alike.

5. I have green paste on mine. But I've heard in can replace the material side

6. I read a post where he says he uses chosera 1k, then norton 4/8 then naniwa 12k or shapton 16k. Both finishers about half the time. And other stones ie escher if he wants I could be wrong and I'm not sure I have any business answering this one.

7. It cleans the blade. Make sure to keep water out of scales. Leave open to dry.

Michael

Looks like you already got some good advice. I will just add a little.

1. No you can't over strop. More likely you will cause damage to edge do to a miss stroke.

2. From the sound of things I would have to agree with Pink in that I think it's more you haven't found the right angle or way to stretch the area that is getting irritated. More so then a sharpness issue (and if your stropping as much as you say and getting good overall shaves I would say you will probably be able to go awhile longer before needing to do anything to the blade other than stropping)

3. Paste are a great way to really extended the life of your edge. If you have a shave ready razor to begin you could keep it going almost indefinitely with different types of pastes.
Both the felt and the rough leather are good mediums for paste depending on what you are using. Diamond spray seems to work best on felt. While croox seems to be best on leather. Both of these are quick sharpeners and should for a first touch up need only 5 to 10 laps. You would do this when you really noticeable feel the razor start to pull hairs out instead of cutting them. (with where you are at I would say when you feel pulling when doing your side burns you need a touch up)

4. Honestly there are better people to answer this then me so I will not give my opinion.

5. The rough leather can be used multiple ways. As I said above it works well for paste. Unpasted it can be used to replace a felt/canvas/linen strop. It can also be a step between a felt/canvas/linen strop and smooth leather. Some old hanging strops came with a rough leather strop and a smooth leather strop instead of a canvas or linen strop.

6. I don't know.

7. Stropping after the shave is very much a personal choice. Though I think for the most part it is accepted as a good way to clean up the edge and help dry the razor. Though if your drying it another way and oiling that should take care of rusting issues also.

Best of luck

Joe

If you get the sharpest scalpel sharp razor made by Gillette, and I don't care if it is a single blade years ago or the multi blade razor now, it will be sharper than straight razors. Shavettes are sharper than well honed straight razors also. With even these razors, when the whiskers are long, your first swipe or two will be accompanied by resistance and pulling. For this reason, I don't believe pulling and resistance on your first pass across whiskers necessarily indicates a dull blade. If you doubt, research on this site for the few hundred threads started by newbies wondering whether their perfectly well honed razors are shave ready!

When you say your blade sleds on the top of whiskers, probably the blade is too dull. But, be careful not to jump to conclusions too rapidly. Depending on your blade angle, downward pressure used, toughness of whiskers and more you could sled with even a sharp razor.

In my opinion, in tough areas, lay the blade flat, move the blade parallel to skin and reduce the length of the whiskers with short motions. Even to sled the razor along the top of the whiskers is not a bad strategy in reducing razor burn. Sled the razor on the top of the whiskers. If the razor doesn't cut any whiskers, elevate the angle slightly so it slices the top off the whiskers slightly.

If the areas aren't hard shaving, aren't especially tough whiskers, just shave at 30 degrees elevation. Skip the flat on face drama. But, if tough whiskers, and especially if you are experiencing razor burn, you need to reduce the whiskers as much as possible with as little contact with the skin as possible.

With a little practice, you might be surprised at how much whisker you can remove without metal touching skin at all. And, it is hard to get razor burn if the edge doesn't touch skin!