Thread: Learning to hone: a noobie's slog

I've been learning to hone my straight razors for almost a year now. It's been at least as hard as learning to shave with them. I finally feel like I'm getting reasonably good at it. If nothing else, that kind of slowness qualifies me to talk about what not to do. Who knows, it might even help someone to share some of the things that have worked (or not), before I forget them.

* Sharpening tools vs razors
It's funny how I assumed I could hone any steel because I used to be a cabinetmaker. Wrong: sharpening tools in no way prepared me to sharpen a razor. The methods are different, and the degree of sharpness is vastly different.

* Honing videos
I read many pages of advice and watched many different videos, demonstrating honing different types of razors and using different types of hones. What a great resource, this Internet thing! However, there are so many variables in equipment and so many different approaches, that you're left with a lot of things to figure out yourself. That said, I continue to learn from them. I don't know any other way, unless you have someone teach you in person: that would be best!

* Heavy handed honing
I'm still tempted to rush things by applying pressure on the blade. It's not hard to correct, it's just a matter of remembering not to forget.

* Watching the edge
The best rule I've learned is to keep my eye on the forward edge of the blade as I move it across the hone, and make sure that the whole edge is "plowing" under the water. When it is, I know the stroke is productive. When it's not, I know I'm doing something wrong.

* Keeping the blade flat
I still struggle to keep the blade flat on the hone through the stroke. All it takes is one bad stroke, where the toe lifts up so you're honing on the edge of the stone, to mess everything up. It's most likely to happen at the end of an X stroke, where only a small part of the blade is on the hone. Also, I seem to have more trouble when pushing the blade away than pulling it toward me (maybe because I can't see the edge). In general, I have an easier time keeping wider blades flat, and wider hones help, too. I keep trying different techniques:

- keeping my elbow level with the hone (as suggested in one video)

- raising the hone to eye level

- holding the hone in my hand

- keeping a finger near the toe to stabilize the blade (being careful not to apply pressure)

- always pulling the blade toward me. This requires switching hands on each stroke, which I find a bit awkward

I'm not satisfied that any of these remedies is a magic bullet. Maybe more useful just for improving hand-eye coordination and control, and learning to detect tactile and aural clues that come from the blade and stone.

* So many stones
Learning anything hard involves a certain amount of thrashing. I accept the trial and error, but I've spent quite a bundle on stones. I've used them all at one time or another, but since I'm still learning, the jury's still out on which ones I really need. At this point, let's just say I have serious doubts about all those claims about saving money by switching to straight razors.

* Honing methods
The theory behind some of the honing techniques frankly loses me (esp. the ones the honemeisters can't even agree on). What I can say with certainty is that I had no luck at all until I tried the pyramid technique, as demonstrated on Lynn Abrams' YouTube video. It's become the basis of my current procedure, which seems to be working for most of my razors:

1. A pyramid sequence of X strokes on the Norton 4k/8k.
2. ~ Twenty X strokes on the Chinese natural stone.
3. ~ Twenty X strokes on the Naniwa 12k stone.
4. ~ a dozen strokes on a balsa Cr0 strop.

* Testing sharpness
I've found only one test that always correlates to shave-ready, and that's a successful hanging hair test at several points up and down the blade. So far, I've never achieved HHT until after the final Cr02 strop in my honing procedure. But that still depends on the previous honing: if I can't pass the test on the strop pretty quickly, I usually go back to the hones and try again.

* Slurry
I've never had any positive results using a slurry on my stones. I'm sure it's wonderful in the hands of an expert, but imo just muddies the water (so to speak) for someone trying to master the basics.

* Stropping
If my honing and shaving skills have come along, I suspect the last link in the chain -- my stropping -- is still subpar. After my initial shave coming off the hone, on subsequent shaves the blade starts to pull unless I give it thirty strokes or so on the leather strop, to bring the edge back. All as expected, so far. Unfortunately, after just a few shaves (three or four, I think) stropping does not bring the edge back, and I have to head back to the hone. Everybody says a honing should last for many shaves with proper stropping. Either they're exaggerating, or my stropping sucks.

There are lots of stropping videos, but I haven't found one that gives me a clue what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure at first I ruined a few edges by emulating those guys who just flail away on the leather. I've had better luck going really slow and even, no pressure, keeping the strop taut. As for the canvas strop on the other side of the leather one, I have no idea: it just seems to just beat the crap out of my blade.

Welcome to SRP, Dennis and you have discovered why most of the experienced members here suggest that a beginner learn to shave, lather and strop for a while (6 months or more) BEFORE trying to hone.
As your experience grows so does your knowledge on what a real shave ready edge really is.
Jimbo made an excellent video on stropping technique and posted it here somewhere (use the search bar - top right of screen and you should find it)
If you look in the 'Community' tab at the top of the page you might be able to find someone close to you who could help with a face to face meeting to assist you with your technique.
Hang on and enjoy the ride

Thank you, this has been really useful to me and I totally second you on the stropping thing: "Either they're exaggerating, or my stropping sucks.".

> suggest that a beginner learn to shave, lather and strop for a while (6 months or more) BEFORE trying to hone

Havachat, I guess it was a chicken-or-egg problem for me: none of the razors that I had sharpened by honemeisters came back shave-ready: they didn't pass HHT and they gave rough shaves (which admittedly would have been partly due to my shaving technique). That's why I felt some urgency to learn to hone myself. It took me longer than I thought, but still, paying other people for six months to not sharpen my razors didn't seem like a very good option, either.

Thanks for the pointer to the stropping video. I had seen it -- as I said, the videos help, but they can't really convey the feel, which is probably what I'm missing. So I like your suggestion to check the Community page. So far nothing local, but I'll keep my eye out.

Hello denisb,

As you admit, there's a good chance that your professionally honed blades were indeed shave-ready but that your shaving techniques weren't yet up to the level to take advantage of those edges. Like you, I learned honing and shaving in parallel, though my quantum leap came when I finally sprung for a new, shave-ready blade and used a properly sharp razor for the first time. After that, I bought my Norton 4k/8k, studiously applied the pyramid method, and had my first honing success.

In honing, stropping, and shaving, the light touch prevails. From what you've written, I know you understand that for honing now. That edge is so fine, so deformable, that it eludes the understanding we've gained from sharpening planes and chisels and kitchen knives. Different critter altogether.

Like you, I think my return stroke is better than my away stroke. The motion has developed better because I've been able to watch it more closely. I'm also wary of slurries; I don't like the way they can scratch the blade near the edge. If I want faster cutting, I can go to a coarser hone. I always hold my hone rather than leave it on a bench; I get better blade contact when I can adjust the hone angle along with the blade angle. The slightly elevated risk of cutting myself makes the entire process more thoughtful, as well.

Your problem with the edge degrading could actually be from honing too much, or trying to finish the blade on too fine a stone. Sheffield steel isn't hard enough to hold the sort of edge you can get off a superfine hone (like a 30k Shapton). American steel will take that sort of edge. German steel is, for me, the happy middle. I don't yet know how far I can push it, but my finest known grit is my Naniwa 12k, which isn't too fine for any of my own razors.

Right now, in my own honing, I'm focusing on a single razor and my different finishers. It's a stainless blade and I'm trying to decide which finisher gives the best edge. My best coti, not as good as my Thuringian but better than diamond spray on a Spyderco UF. Charnley Forest is pretty harsh--but that's just on my Charnley; another might be better. Experiments continue. Good luck with your own.

Like roughkype touched on, the edge degradation could be from too much honing... or more specifically, the use of pastes. I'd stay away from those while learning to hone since they can cover up mistakes you may have made on the hones. I don't consider myself accomplished in the skill of honing, but once I get a blade where it needs to be, it will last a long time without having to touch the hones again (especially with a periodic stropping on leather with 1/2 micron diamond spray). I have a few razors that I've used on the order of 20+ times a piece, and the edges have gotten better with time and stropping instead of worse. Bear in mind that I prefer very hard steel, and as always, YMMV.

Hi,
To me, you do appear to be doing too much honing. What I mean is that the edge should last longer, I think.

I think you wrote down some really interesting points, like the always honing towards yourself thing. Is it possible that you like this as you can see that pool of water pushed by the blade better? That is really what it comes down to, isn't it? That degree of concentration on all that you mentioned.

I've been considering what stropping actually does for the last few weeks. I've read a lot and seen a lot but I'm still uncertain. One thing I made certain to reiterate to myself the other day is that stropping doesn't sharpen. It can't, at least not without paste. At least not as far as I understand it. I actually LIKE the canvas side of my strop (W/O paste); I always do 30/70. I don't mind shaving after honing without stropping, but it's clear to me that one thing stropping does is 'smooth' the edge after honing. It also maintains the edge. So delays degregation rather than sharpening. And maybe the 'softening' thing is due to the alignment of the 'teeth' on the edge? I don't know, just thinking aloud really, and sort of adding to your observations... :-)

I really like your article, and with all due respect I'm wondering why only 17 posts? You seem like you have some good knowledge to share :-)

Some very interesting points here. I'm also a learner honer and despite getting some very good results I occasionally come up with a razor which just does not get anywhere near shave ready - so maybe I need to look at the difference in terms of steel as someone pointed out.

The other thing I share with the OP is the push stroke not being as good as the pull towards me. What I haven't tried so far is holding the hone to see if this makes a difference. Unlike you normal people, I suffer from hearing loss in the upper frequencies so can't rely on sound - I have to go on feel alone but it's wonderful when things do go right - I guess this is what the experienced honers refer to as feedback.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies -- I was hoping for useful feedback, and you're certainly given me that. Onward and upward.