Thread: What's in a grind?

Righto here's where I'm at!

I enjoy reading lots of the posts on this-here site.

I check out GeoFatboys posts on youtube.

I enjoy the wistful nostalgia that is straight razor use.

I am an obsessive with sharpening my, and other peoples', knives .

I have an old cheapie straight razor I got for a song on ebay that I think is really never going to make the grade due to some metallurgical problems inherent in the blade.

So i'm thinking about a you-beaut newie!

I'm happy to pay plenty if it's not going to really cost a lot more over time and I can even pass it down to my son...

I think I have most of the nitty-gritty of blades down as far as I can tell, except what are the pros and cons of different grinds?

Given that I'm going to sharpen the thing myself, and i may be a little rough with it to start with, can my dear colleagues on this site give me their opinion of the grind that they currently use, and how it would withstand a newbies touch? Does a different grind suit different skin and hair growth?

Can you tell me what you would do differently if you had the time again?

And just for fun can you tell me the best and worst thing about your first experiences with the 'straight?'

Many Thanks
mahtay

First off welcome, i am new to straight razor shaving myself and sounds like for material your off to a good start. Geo's videos are great for a beginner, especially the one where he goes over a 3 pass with a Dovo, just be careful of the prices at his shop, they are not all the best bargain. Listen to all the senior members as there information is invaluable.

Things i wish i did different from the beginning, now about 6 months in. Soaps, aftershaves and preshaves make all the difference. Don't go cheap. Finally setting on a poraso preshave, razorock or poraso soap/cream, follow with alum block, thayer's and they Razorock aftershave wax. Although not all this is essential, it has helped greatly with ingrown hairs, and razo burn as i have a very thick beard, i think my beard is made out of very small pieces rebar

Worst Experience: The day the pin screw loosened to much and when i turned the handle razor closed on middle finger. should have tightened it sooner. Lets just say bandaid was on there for a while.

Best Experience: They day i got a full BBS shave with no nicks/cuts or red irritation. Had a ridiculous smile on my face all day.

Go luck and don't be afraid to ask what you might think as a stupid question, we all had to start somewhere, and hey there is probably other beginners lurking the forum that have been to afraid to ask the same thing.

Hi guys, and welcome to both of you!

The conventional wisdom on grinds is that heavier (wedgier) ones are a little more forgiving of blade angle and give better shaves to new users and to those with very heavy beards. The blades don't deflect/spring back/resonate the way hollow grinds do, so they're much quieter to shave with. Lots of people really like the audible feedback their hollows give them, and for a lot of us, hollows do give better shaves.

My best shaver is an extra-hollow 5/8 that does in one pass what any of my other blades need two passes to do. Yet it's not my favorite shaver. With so little mass, I find it jittery and squirrelly, and am more likely to cut myself than if I'm using one of my heavier, statelier grinds. Like driving a Mini with big rims and skinny tires, instead of some big old sedan with big old whitewalls.

Any degree of hollowing makes a blade much easier to hone than a full wedge, because you need to remove so much less metal from it to achieve the same edge. A quarter or half hollow is a good compromise between honability and shave stability. One of my favorite razors has a very heavy back with slight hollowing and a real hollowing only along about a third of the blade's width. It gives me the steadiness of a wedge and the relatively easy edge of a hollow.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes to you.

Like roughkype says is the havier grinds known to be more forgiving, while the more hollows are easier to hone.

It's not that much harder to hone a wedge, it just takes more time.

Personally it all depends on my mood what grind I prefer, I get just as good shaves from my wedges as from the different hollows.

If I would give an advice I would recommend to start with a half to full hollow, and over time try out some different grinds and see what you find working best for you, that's really all that matters

The functional differences in grinds boil down to weight and flex (we're talking the norm not the exceptions). Wedge razors typically are heavier and do not flex, the full hollows are lighter and offer some flex.

As far as honing, properly made razors in good condition will have the same bevel width no matter whether the grind is wedge or hollow, so given the same steel and heat treatment, you remove the same amount of metal to maintain the razor sharp. But the stiff grind will be slightly more tolerant to extra pressure while honing, which means that a beginner with poor honing technique may still get a poor edge, while on a full hollow they'll be forced to lighten the pressure to make any progress.

The whole 'wedges take longer to hone' is just because people hone old wedge razors that are severely damaged or abused to the point where the bevels are much wider than they should be, or the spines are very uneven. But that's a problem with the condition of the razors and has nothing to do with the grind. My 200+ year old razors in near factory condition are just as easy to hone and maintain as any extra full hollow.

Shaving-wise it's pretty much the same situation. The whiskers and the skin care not how much steel there is behind the edge or how that steel is shaped. But a beginner with poor shaving technique would typically be able to use the extra weight (inertia) of the stiff grind and its lack of flexibility as a crutch that compensates for his inadequate control of the razor. (Remember that most men these days use cartridge or electric razors to compensate for their inability to control a straight razor .)
Of course, this also means that he is getting less feedback how to improve his technique than if he'd be using a lighter and more flexible razor.

Originally Posted by gugi

The whole 'wedges take longer to hone' is just because people hone old wedge razors that are severely damaged or abused to the point where the bevels are much wider than they should be, or the spines are very uneven. But that's a problem with the condition of the razors and has nothing to do with the grind. My 200+ year old razors in near factory condition are just as easy to hone and maintain as any extra full hollow.

Yes, I must agree with this, as late as last night I spent almost an hour fixing a damaged edge on a full hollow, a worn or damaged blade will take time to hone/fix regardless of grind.

But I suppose OP is thinking of a new razor, and in that case it won't make much difference either in honing or shaving other than weight and the "feel" of the razor.

Except from the custom makers I can only recall Hart Steel and Wacker making heavy grinds today?

Equally important is the type of point: Round point, French Point, Square point... I found that for learning a round point is easier to shave with since it won't stick you if you move incorrectly.
I wish I learned to shave on a half hollow, round point. Just my 2cents.

I started off 4 months ago with 2 4/8 full hollow razors, one round and one square point. After being bitten by the square the round point is the way to go for a beginner. Along the way I picked up a new 6/8 full hollow and liked it better than the smaller 4/8 razors because being heavier it felt less jumpy in my hands. Another surprise was an old 5/8 with a heavier grind than full hollow that felt good to shave with as it seemed steadier to because of the weight. As my technique improved I can now use all of them to about equal effect. For me, an absolute must with smaller full hollows is that they be very sharp which goes a long way to quieting the gitters down because their lighter weight exaggerates every tug and pull. Found all that out the hard way as all of it is on this site somewhere.

If I were to start all over I would go with a round point, slightly heavier grind, 5/8 to 6/8 razor as my first razor. From there you can branch out when your skill level improves to other combinations.

Worst experience so far has been giving myself a light 1/2 inch gash on my cheek with a square point. Don't really want to repeat the exercise.

Bob

I've found wedges and near wedges easier to hone because they "apply" their own weight to the stone and don't flex when honed. Hollows flex under pressure, and this can extend the bevel beyond where it should be.

Thanks Guys,
really happy with what I've learned from this thread;

1. A thin/hollow grind seems to be for professionals with the 'feel.'

2. A round tip will save the newbie!

So if I decide to go for a half grind with a round tip, any other suggestions?

Cheers again,
mahtay