Thread: Throw those crutches away

Originally Posted by Tierdaen

I shave with cold water fairly often. Sometimes just use some shampoo for my lather. If it's smooth, I can get a good shave from it using my Feather AC. I don't really love the whole brush/scuttle ritual, and find it pretty superfluous. Even when I use shaving soap, I sometimes like to work it in with my hands and skip the brush stuff.

I've done a shave with straight oil, but didn't like the way the hair stuck to the razor. I've tried full-dry or water-only and my beard is a bit too coarse to be easily mowed down even with the Feather Pro Supers, but it can be done. I apply petroleum jelly with water to my face afterward to prevent dryout.

Yes, the YMMV cliche is applied liberally to most method posts, but consider how many new users are being brought into the hobby under the impression that there's a genuinely correct way of doing it. How many new users have been convinced to get a brush and scuttle and aftershave and all the extras before they even try a straight or DE shave? I bet quite a large fraction of them. We can beat people with "do what works for you" all the time but it sounds bromidic when virtually all the SOTD posts and other content in the community embraces orthodoxy or some variation thereof. As a result, I like seeing posts where people experiment a bit.

I hope that I'm understanding your statement; just spent the last five, looking up the definitions of "orthodoxy" & "bromidic".

One quick question first, to help me, "If a community embraces orthodoxy, will that same community allow a variation to co-exist exist with that orthodoxy? "

I understand Bob's post & agree with him; I just wanted to play with the new guys a little.

Tierdaen,
I do believe there is a correct way, method, procedure to bring new guys into the wet shaving arena. I feel that the first experiences with wet shaving are the most important. A lot of the luxuries(equipment) that we use do compensate for lack of skill, as Bob stated. I think that strongly suggesting a routine that includes equipment, that is not vital to removing hair from the face benefits the new shaver , as it gives him a better first shave experience. I dare say that if we stripped new guys of the luxuries, then many of us would not be here today.
I have not noticed, and I'm there a lot, a routine that rises to the level of "orthodoxy", in the SOTD thread. I've seen posts of the bare minimum required to shave & many that I envied their luxuries.

Also Tierdaen, many members here have businesses attached to the wet shaving experience. I'm glad that many guys want to purchase luxuries suggested by "time tested" routines. This allows the member/vendors to stock these luxuries for all of us to use.

I've never seen a thread that forces the purchase or use of only popular equipment/luxuries.

Yes, there is preferred a path to travel down the wet shaving path; a path with many stops along the way & yes, YMMV when you check the odometer at the end.

Well.it is 28 degs outside (for kali,that is real cold) I have been in my shop for 14 hrs, standing on a cold concreat floor,I am frizzed to the bone.
I am going to have a hot bowl of home made Borscht,some home brew Kimchee,some warm homemade sourdough bread.
Than I will go shower and shave,cold water is not in the equation,never will be for me

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Well.it is 28 degs outside (for kali,that is real cold) I have been in my shop for 14 hrs, standing on a cold concreat floor,I am frizzed to the bone.
I am going to have a hot bowl of home made Borscht,some home brew Kimchee,some warm homemade sourdough bread.
Than I will go shower and shave,cold water is not in the equation,never will be for me

With that Kimchee it'll be plenty hot by the time you get done with it

I have arrived at a similar point when it comes to my shaves, in that I keep it simple before it gets stupid. I keep it cold. I skip a scuttle and face lather from the brush. And even if I had irritation I wouldn't know for a while, from all the ice I pack on my face. Bob is absolutely correct, technique and equipment are paramount.

I've always said the razor and your skill is what's really important. Everything else ranges from enjoyment factors and window dressing to partial improvements in the shave. If your razor is dull and/or your skills are dull the most expensive soap and pre and post shaves and fancy routines won't make a lick of difference. If your razor and skills are up to snuff you can shave with just cold water and still get a great comfortable shave.

I have said this in other threads, but it feels appropriate to say it again here. YMMV is not a cop out. To not use it is a huge presumption that your shaving situation is not unique and can be used as generally sound advice. I don't think that is ever true. Your face, skin, razors, blades, prep and post are always unique. Any advice to new wet shavers should encourage certain basics (no pressure on the razor, try to moisten your beard, etc.) but everything beyond that is an expression of what you enjoy or works for you. That's fine as long as it is understood.

I have been wet shaving with DEs for sometime and have put together what gives me a great shave/experience. If I listed every step and asked who does it my way with my choice of equipment, I would be surprised if one person agreed with it. I understand when I read reviews or posts about great shaves someone has had, that this may not (probably won't) work for me.

I don't deny the importance of skill and equipment, but if the face and skin of the individual won't allow a close shave without irritation, the rest won't matter. My face is not smooth, I have a tremor in my left hand and my beard is very tough. I have tried and continue to search for a product or technique that will soften my beard at all (yes, I hot shower before I shave). I can get anywhere from 0 to 1 comfortable shave from most DE blades. I use Feather blades almost exclusively, not because I want to, but because I have to (this is not a gripe about Feather, but a fact of my limited choices). I have not yet found a straight that will cut my beard smoothly. This includes SRD pre-honed razors out of the box (yes, tried all angles from flat to 40 degrees with no luck). I still enjoy shaving with a straight, but I always have to clean up with a DE. Yes, my technique is constantly getting better and so are the shaves (little irritation and cuts are rare), but I have to constantly struggle to get any of my razors (I have 5 and they'er all fine razors) to cut with the ease of a DE blade.

Everyone will have to figure out what works best for them so they can get the best shave possible for their situation. It's interesting to read about a shaver who just dry shaved themselves with a scout knife for a BBS shave, but I don't think there are a lot of conclusions to be drawn from it.

Originally Posted by matloffm

I have said this in other threads, but it feels appropriate to say it again here. YMMV is not a cop out. To not use it is a huge presumption that your shaving situation is not unique and can be used as generally sound advice. I don't think that is ever true. Your face, skin, razors, blades, prep and post are always unique. Any advice to new wet shavers should encourage certain basics (no pressure on the razor, try to moisten your beard, etc.) but everything beyond that is an expression of what you enjoy or works for you. That's fine as long as it is understood.

I have been wet shaving with DEs for sometime and have put together what gives me a great shave/experience. If I listed every step and asked who does it my way with my choice of equipment, I would be surprised if one person agreed with it. I understand when I read reviews or posts about great shaves someone has had, that this may not (probably won't) work for me.

I don't deny the importance of skill and equipment, but if the face and skin of the individual won't allow a close shave without irritation, the rest won't matter. My face is not smooth, I have a tremor in my left hand and my beard is very tough. I have tried and continue to search for a product or technique that will soften my beard at all (yes, I hot shower before I shave). I can get anywhere from 0 to 1 comfortable shave from most DE blades. I use Feather blades almost exclusively, not because I want to, but because I have to (this is not a gripe about Feather, but a fact of my limited choices). I have not yet found a straight that will cut my beard smoothly. This includes SRD pre-honed razors out of the box (yes, tried all angles from flat to 40 degrees with no luck). I still enjoy shaving with a straight, but I always have to clean up with a DE. Yes, my technique is constantly getting better and so are the shaves (little irritation and cuts are rare), but I have to constantly struggle to get any of my razors (I have 5 and they'er all fine razors) to cut with the ease of a DE blade.

Everyone will have to figure out what works best for them so they can get the best shave possible for their situation. It's interesting to read about a shaver who just dry shaved themselves with a scout knife for a BBS shave, but I don't think there are a lot of conclusions to be drawn from it.

You need a tad more experiance my friend,JMO

I've heard it said quite a few times that you'll get superior shaves from a straight compared to cartridge razors and the like. I've then seen a lot of people frustrated with their straight razor shaves get blamed for their own dissatisfaction. It's usually just then that the YMMV platitudes come around to convince that it's all about experience and that dedication to mastery is the only sure way to satisfaction. That is assuming there's not a rush to push products at the novice.

I don't disagree with the truth behind some of those platitudes, but their timing (after getting hooked) certainly can be discouraging for people who have grown disillusioned with traps that work the same way in politics, business, and religion.

Originally Posted by Tierdaen

I've heard it said quite a few times that you'll get superior shaves from a straight compared to cartridge razors and the like. I've then seen a lot of people frustrated with their straight razor shaves get blamed for their own dissatisfaction. It's usually just then that the YMMV platitudes come around to convince that it's all about experience and that dedication to mastery is the only sure way to satisfaction. That is assuming there's not a rush to push products at the novice.

I don't disagree with the truth behind some of those platitudes, but their timing (after getting hooked) certainly can be discouraging for people who have grown disillusioned with traps that work the same way in politics, business, and religion.

Here's a confession for you;
I've been straight shaving for 2 years, only started because I wanted to shave with my grandfather's razor, handed down to me from the 1830's. The first month sucked as far as a close shave. I kept with it, trying many things that would get me to the close shave & justify my effort in this new arena.
I have reached a level with straights that give me a nice, comfortable shave. I don't know what BBS is, I don't believe. I jumped into DE razors about 6 months ago, with a gift from ZeroCool, a 1956 Gillette DE. I split my week with DE shaves & Straight shaves. I have yet to have a straight razor shave that beats my Gillette gift. My straights are close, but not better. That does not discourage me from straights, it only tells me that I have a lot to learn when it comes to straight razor shaving.

The biggest benefit that I have been given from straight razor shaving, is that at age 51, I look forward to shaving. Most of my life, shaving was a necessary PITA.

There are no traps here, if you feel disillusioned, take a step back & look over what's crowding you & causing the frustration. Focus on a single distant goal, then the path clears an opening for you.
I may sound like a nut, but I get disillusioned when I take on more than I should, then I step back focus & remove the obstacles one at a time.

You will do fine, stay in the game, it's really a fun one.

I don't have any particular difficulty with shaving, and can get by with pretty much anything. I have no special love or hate for straight razors, and I just picked up several nice razors that I plan to use. I am simply critical of the way new members are often "converted". That you came to straights via another path is great; but there are plenty of folks who have been convinced by enthusiastic but perhaps ignorant or naive enablers. I came back to straight shaving because of nostalgia and an attraction to long-term tools, as well as a love of steel and craftsmanship. I never had to deal with the disenchantment some users who are lured in have to deal with. It happens quite often to others though. It's one of those issues that pervades most enthusiast communities.