Blog Comments

Curse words and vulgarity are the crutch of the inarticulate.

Yet I find when I am in the ghetto backed up against the wall ,pre being robbed and beaten , A well strung together cursing tirade is the one manner of communication that garners any type of respect and often diffuses the situation. Environment and Audience seem to be the common thread to usefulness when in less than genteel law abiding situations.
This forum is not that place. Black Friday at Wal-Mart it will have a useful application.

Originally Posted by Razorfeld

...snip...
By the way, as an aside. There was a fairly recent study done on foul language and older people. It seems, that in general, as we age we tend to relax more in our use of swear words. Not that it is done consciously but the mental prohibition seems to lessen with age. I find that to be somewhat true in that I have found myself using bad language more frequently in everyday conversation and have to self-censor milli-seconds before I utter it.

Funny; peculiar, I find that as I age I am less inclined to use the foul language that was the common denominator in many workplaces i spent time in. But, since I 've been writing a lot, it has really come to my attention just how often I did without thinking and used it instead of a descriptive word. As in: " Ya know that $%^&* thing #$%^&* won't come off!"
~Richard

Truer words were never written or spoken. Everyone should remember that words are like bullets. once fired they can not be undone.

OK so I have to admit that I have a truckers mouth . As I read this and thought deeply about my use of not so nice words I remembered what some one told me about using profanity. He said that the use of fowl language is only due to the lack of correct words to describe your feelings for something or someone etc. Honestly I was embarrassed by that statement due to the fact I'm not a simple minded person and have quite a bit of brains So I have been trying to keep it to a minimum and use it as a tool like the gentleman said. How does all this pertain to the above blog? It opened my eyes a bit more to how others feel and react to what I have to say weather it be good or bad and honestly I like the reaction I get from the good much more then the latter !!!!


Aaron

That is just the best poetic mumblejumple written in any "altered state"! I salute just that!

I never thought I got any extra miles by using profanity.

In fact, I see profanity as a strong arm tactic, employed by individuals who lack mastery of their given language.

IE: If I can't get your attention or present my point with logic and eloquence, I'll try to muscle and bully you with profanity and a loud voice...

Raise your voice at me, face to face or in a virtual environment and I am walking away. Only a fool argues with another fool.

Keep up the good work Mods!!

the lack of profanity has never offended anyone.

@ Crouton, yes, I know what you are saying, however I have a coupe of 'but's to your explanation.

Firstly, about your example "People being enslaved is f***ed up", that is much different than saying "If you believe in slavery, you're f***ed up". Yes. In a theoretical, almost mathematical sense, you are absolutely right. but we are human and don't live like this. It's like saying that "I don't think you are stupid, I just think your ideas are stupid". Rationally, you are right that they are not the same thing. Yet for all intents and purposes, you just called someone stupid. Imo, this is weaseling out of the letter of the rules against insult, just for the sake of being able to insult. You intentionally called someone stupid because you knew how your words would be interpreted. And if you argue that rationally, this is not the case, then I can say that if you really believed that your statement should be taken logically, there was no need for profanity to begin with. You could have used objective and rational terms, rather than subjective terms / profanity.

Second, behavior is shaped by routine and habits. This is also why dress code exists. I knew a CEO who said 'you should dress right if you want to work right'. The military places a lot of emphasis on well shined shoes and proper dresscode. Not because it makes you fight better, but because the attitude to details will carry over into other behavior (like weapons maintenance). Simply making people talk nicely to each other will also make them behave / think more nicely towards each other.

Clean, simple, direct communication on this type of forum seems to be the right way to approach most of the categories available. There are plenty of other forums where people can express themselves thru profanity out there on the web. I say if that is what you need then go there to be comfortable, but I bet those forums are based on emotion and not very productive.

Maybe we can start a trend here; sure would be nice to see it catch on.

For what it's worth, keep it clean.

I will not use a lot of words to sort this out.....just be nice and polite to people. Simple really.

Excellent post, Bruno!

However, playing devil's advocate here, every instance and example you've used in your post is in regard to using profanity directed at another. While it should be obvious to most that doing so could and likely does cause a lot of harm and bad blood between people, words which are considered profane can and do have a use in certain scenarios. As you put it, "Like any other thing, it is a means to an end. A tool."

Let me put it another way... if I were to say "People being enslaved is f***ed up", that is much different than saying "If you believe in slavery, you're f***ed up". In the first instance, I'm simply using a phrase to describe my feelings on a particular subject. I could use words that are not considered profane and convey the same meaning. The majority of people who would get upset by that statement wouldn't be upset because I used profanity, rather they would be upset because my belief differs from theirs. In the second instance, however, it is very easy to be personally offended and feel attacked when said words are directed at you.

A further illustration of my point is that if the words themselves, if directed at no one in particular, were causing such an offense, then everyone who is reading anything posted by JimmyHAD should be just as offended by his current avatar. The same could be said about anyone who has an avatar with any political statement that is pro or anti-firearm ownership (another very sensitive subject here). When opinions, morals and beliefs differ, there will always be a certain level of offense taken. The key to avoiding conflict is one's intent.

Outright banning profanity, then, could be said to be only treating the symptom and not the disease. The real problem is directing hurtful words, profane or not, towards another member. After all, unless we plan to only have canned responses, no avatars and a filter for offensive images or language, someone, somewhere will be offended or at the very least put off by something another member says or displays.

In my opinion, blatant aggression against another member, intended only to offend and not debate, should be the real focus and subject to swift penalties. A person who knowingly offends another has no place here, in my book.

Having said all that, I will abide by any rules set forth by the SRP mod team, as I love this community and all of it's members. I may not agree 100% with every decision made, and might voice a dissenting opinion, but the value this community brings to me outweighs what some of my personal preferences are. The only thing I ask, and which I've found the mod team to be incredible at doing, is that you guys take what the rest of us feel under advisement.

Keep up the fantastic work, and know that I appreciate everything you and the rest of the mods do for us!

Wow,
I could very well vacate the premises but I chose not to. My ideas are mine as well as my interpretation of Bruno's thoughts. If you side with him in a devotee way then so be it. My views are not a rule and in no way do I impose them on anyone. You seem to hold the title of "Administrator" in high regard. In your mind Bruno is untouchable.
I will abide by the rules because I want to be part of this community, but I will not nor do I abide censorship.
I promise not to use profanity or to use this form in a antagonist or defamatory way.
I'm just an honest man who calls it like I see it and am perfectly willing to enter into debate with anyone at anytime.
Bruno answered my post and I agree with him. I was a bit half cocked, as it were, and sent a more emotionally charged response than I should have. My apologies Bruno. Nuff said.

Originally Posted by foldedandhoned

Words are interesting things. They are a way of simple communication and also loaded to mean something entirely different that is esoteric to the speaker. Your post, Bruno, lead me to believe that you have a hell of a lot more going on in your soul than you posted.
Profanity is just the tip of your ice berg.
The greatest writers have all been profane but were so in the service of the telling of the human experience.
I use profanity liberally, I like it. I find it colorful. It rhymes and is honest.
You, sir, should look into your heart and find out what it is that makes you want to judge others and then use a platform such as a blog to berate them.
BTW, having a blog does not make you a writer nor an authority on any subject, especially the human experience.
All the best,
Folded

And what exactly makes your views on the matter any more valid than anyone else's? Allow me to educate you on one major point regarding these blogs and this site - Bruno is an Administrator. For all intents and purposes, and certainly as it pertains to you, this is his house and these are his rules. If you do not like those rules, please feel very free to vacate the premises.

James.

Interestingly, you don't know me from Adam, and you think you can accurately 'judge me'?

In case you missed the entire point of my blog post, I was not talking about profanity. What triggered the ideas behind this post was the statement that profanity is ok because 'words don't hurt'. However, the post itself is about how words CAN be used to hurt, and much worse than actual sticks and stones.

Emotionally charged words are also often abused to make people lose focus of the topic at hand. Is that 'honest' as you call it? I think it is not. If a gifted speaker twists words and uses them like a whip to drive a mob into a frenzy, is that 'honest'? No, it is not. It's never honest and rational words that rule a mob. But emotional rallying cries do. If you want to belong to a group of people that acts rationally, then the only way is to be rational yourself as well.

I want groups of people to behave rational. Especially if I am a part of that group. To that end I wrote this blog post. Most of the senior members here want the same thing, actually, which is why we have a large group of likeminded senior members and staff, and why the owner put me in charge as an admin. I don't 'rule by force' to decide how things go around here. That only works for a short time. Decisions here are usually taken with a near unanimous concensus. My blog is a way to give the interested onlooker an idea of what goes into the decision making. It's not a pulpit from which I unilaterally decree how it shall be.

People are free to have a different opinion. If you think profanity is great, you can certainly use it wherever you want. Except for here on this site, because the concensus is that we want a profanity free place. That was the original decision by the original owner, Lynn. Over time, the people who stayed are the ones who (among other things) like this concept.

As for being a writer? Who are you to say I am not? I have written an published many things, both online and in print. And in this position of administrator (and staff member before that) I have dealt with many people and many facets of human experience. I've dealt with thieves and con men. I've dealt with people trying to create problems for others, I've dealt with the problems that arise over jealousy, profit, and a number of other things that motivate man. That doesn't make me an expert, but it does make me qualified to say that I have some idea about human nature in general , and this forum in specific.

Words are interesting things. They are a way of simple communication and also loaded to mean something entirely different that is esoteric to the speaker. Your post, Bruno, lead me to believe that you have a hell of a lot more going on in your soul than you posted.
Profanity is just the tip of your ice berg.
The greatest writers have all been profane but were so in the service of the telling of the human experience.
I use profanity liberally, I like it. I find it colorful. It rhymes and is honest.
You, sir, should look into your heart and find out what it is that makes you want to judge others and then use a platform such as a blog to berate them.
BTW, having a blog does not make you a writer nor an authority on any subject, especially the human experience.
All the best,
Folded

Thank you, Bruno. Nuff said.

Sorry Bruno, may have been swerving off course a bit. I think we are all working our way to the same point though, some of us might just be stopping off along the way. (by some.of us I might mean me )

It is all about context. Across me is sitting a colleague who is 15 years older than me. Together we are a bit like stattler and waldorf, always grumping about things and especially about each other. What we say to eachother would be grounds for immediate termination if they were taken from one context (2 people who know eachother well, and who are equals when it comes to burning) and transferred to another context (for example me and the insecure girl at QA helpdesk who doesn't talk with me often).

That is why zero tolerance policies are universally stupid, because they don't take context into account. But that is rather different from the point of my article. The above paragraph is more about profanity and interaction with people.

There are times when you need to be firm. But even in those cases, you rarely find that labels are accurate, even (or especially) the loaded ones like terrorist. You can be firm without calling people things that are not accurate. When you do, you are intentionally dumbing yourself down and blocking yourself from rational arguments.

Carl, you are right the scenario is, well the scenario.
And yes, sometimes saying what someone doesn't want to hear is exactly what they need to hear.
However context is more than important as well as circumstance. I would need to know you to tell you to f off, knowing that you would know that I still cared for/about you. Look at the baby steps/toing and froing, that were used to form our relationship (i almost put relationship in inverted commas, but it seemed a bit ridiculous, we are both grown ups). If I had just gone at you in the forum, without some sort of something else, you wouldn't know what to think.
Now if I had labeled you as whatever, openly I cannot take that back, and I cannot stop that from being taken out of context.
I think modern "conversations" (ie forum/ facebook banter etc) can and have been very damaging to some, what has been said can be glossed over etc, that which is written, especially in an open arena cannot be refuted as easily, and in some cases at all.
I am sure we both know things about each other that we would prefer weren't put out for public viewing. But the modern generation (gosh that makes me sound old) really don't seem to think like that. There have been a few instances of people loosing their jobs due to what they or their friends posted on facebook around where I work.

Interesting. I don't normally stray on to the main page but tonight I'm glad I did.

The whole scenario depends on the, well, scenario.

It depends on the word and the context. I mean, I think these days, at least in the society I live in dropping the 'F' word won't get you sacked.
I also agree those labels can shock one.

However, sometimes you need to give someone a slap across the face to wake them up, and language can do that. It can be nice and it can refresh. Language is fluid, and, like freezing water, can wake one up.