Thread: Help an old guy out with lathering

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I am putting this here since there is no 'lathering' forum, and it concerns using a brush. I could have put it in soaps & creams forum, but six of one, half dozen of the other, here it is.

I used to run tap water on my brush, I shave cold, and then stick it in a Moss Scuttle with enough water to keep it soaking. Drip a bit of water on the puck, and walk away for 5 minutes.

Lather I got that way was alright, but never as good as some I've seen on the forums, videos, that meringue looking stuff. Lately I've been just dipping the tips of the bristles in the scuttle with water. Getting maybe a half inch wet,, shaking it out over the dry puck and going at it.

The theory, as I understand it, is that the brush will have more flow through if the whole knot isn't sopping wet. Again, the lathering is just 'alright', nothing to write home about.

If you're getting great lather, what is you procedure ?

How long do you load your brush, do you get that sticky/gooey proto-lather while loading the brush and are you using enough water while you load?

Jimmy,

Soak your brush with water (I prefer warm, but ymmv). Shake out the *excess* water... not a violent shake, just one or two light flicks so the water isn't dribbling out of the brush as you move it around or run down your arm when face lathering, but it must still be quite wet. Swirl on your soap (no pre-treating the soap is necessary, but it will speed your lather building if you do) until it starts to look good, then you can either work up the lather in a dry bowl/scuttle or in your hand or on your face.

If you do not have enough water, you will NEVER dissolve enough soap to make lather. IF you have too much water.... and you follow the instructions above... as in keep swirling on that soap until it starts to look good, you will end up with enough excellent lather to shave 10 men. Wasteful perhaps, but at least you got the lather right... now you know you had too much water and you can flick that brush just a little bit harder the next time. Everyone uses different amounts of water/soap/swirling time etc. So do not be surprised at how short or long you may have to swirl, or how much water you have to use, to get it right... it's different for every man, brush, soap, cream, water and temperature.... To start, just make sure your brush is thoroughly soaked and not too dry.... Once you get decent lather, but perhaps too much, you can start to cut back on the amount of water.... You have to start with too much water.... too little and you NEVER get decent lather.

Thin lather has two main causes.

1: Not enough water in the brush (no amount of swirling on the soap will fix it, you need more water)

2: Too much water, and you don't dissolve enough soap to bring it together (more swirling on the soap will eventually fix this issue, but you'll have too much lather)

Yes, hard water can be a problem, but you have eliminated that by using bottle water... unless you were sold tap water in a bottle.... and don't laugh, it's a problem all over both the USA AND Canada. I've never had to deal with really hard water (signs would be white crusting around your faucets and having to clean your coffee-maker or kettle from white mineral build up every few weeks). If you know you have REALLY HARD water, then we need to deal with that.... A gallon of real distilled water would fix that problem. Another tipoff would be that you can't get your shampoo to lather, no suds in your laundry and you have to chip all that white crud off your taps to get some water in your glass!

The warmer the water, the faster it will dissolve soap and the faster you can create lather. The colder the water, the longer it will take to dissolve the soap and make lather.


And yes, some soaps and creams are crappy...... but you should still be able to get them to lather... If you are using a cream, something around the size of a level measuring teaspoon should be fine to start... again, you'll probably need to adjust it up or down as necessary, but that would be a good start. I often hear "pea size" as a measure, but I tend to use a "half a shrivelled walnut's worth" If you start with a toothpick's worth of cream, you are going to have a hard time getting enough lather to shave with.

Those pictures of huge billowing piles of shaving lather... bah, it's dry and useless, but looks impressive for the camera. If you have trouble making enough lather for a picture, grab a can of goo from the store and add it before taking the picture!

The soap/cream has 3 basic purposes:

1: Lubricate your face during shaving.... allow the blade to glide effortlessly across the skin and help the water to permeate and soften your beard.

2: The hairs are softened by *water and a surfactant", so you want as much water as you can get into the lather and soap is a surfactant, the lather is there to keep the water on your face! It's called wet shaving for a reason.

3: And of least importance perhaps, lather lets you see where you have already shaved and collects the stubble into an easy to wipe off glob on your razor.


Regards

Christian

In the beginning, I just loaded up a crazy amount of product on the brush. I like a dry brush. I do soak them for a couple of minutes, but then I squeeze them dry. Load up the brush until you have a half inch of a thick pasty proto lather. From there, go to the bowl or face, slowly adding water until you get a lather you like.

Originally Posted by celestino

How long do you load your brush, do you get that sticky/gooey proto-lather while loading the brush and are you using enough water while you load?

Funny thing. I began using a shaving brush (Hoffritz badger) in 1973. I used a puck of Old Spice until it ran out, then got a puck of Williams and used that until it ran out. Then I used to take the bar of face soap and hold it in the palm of my hand, run the tap on the bristles until wet, swirl on the bar of soap, either Ivory, or Dove, until I had lather. One ATG with a Gillette 'Good News' and call it good. Did that for over 30 years. I didn't start having problems until I got on the shaving forums, got brushes, soaps, creams. I've done it all kinds of ways since then (2007),

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Jimmy,

Soak your brush with water (I prefer warm, but ymmv). Shake out the *excess* water... not a violent shake, just one or two light flicks so the water isn't dribbling out of the brush as you move it around or run down your arm when face lathering, but it must still be quite wet. Swirl on your soap (no pre-treating the soap is necessary, but it will speed your lather building if you do) until it starts to look good, then you can either work up the lather in a dry bowl/scuttle or in your hand or on your face.

If you do not have enough water, you will NEVER dissolve enough soap to make lather. IF you have too much water.... and you follow the instructions above... as in keep swirling on that soap until it starts to look good, you will end up with enough excellent lather to shave 10 men. Wasteful perhaps, but at least you got the lather right... now you know you had too much water and you can flick that brush just a little bit harder the next time. Everyone uses different amounts of water/soap/swirling time etc. So do not be surprised at how short or long you may have to swirl, or how much water you have to use, to get it right... it's different for every man, brush, soap, cream, water and temperature.... To start, just make sure your brush is thoroughly soaked and not too dry.... Once you get decent lather, but perhaps too much, you can start to cut back on the amount of water.... You have to start with too much water.... too little and you NEVER get decent lather.

Thin lather has two main causes.

1: Not enough water in the brush (no amount of swirling on the soap will fix it, you need more water)

2: Too much water, and you don't dissolve enough soap to bring it together (more swirling on the soap will eventually fix this issue, but you'll have too much lather)

Yes, hard water can be a problem, but you have eliminated that by using bottle water... unless you were sold tap water in a bottle.... and don't laugh, it's a problem all over both the USA AND Canada. I've never had to deal with really hard water (signs would be white crusting around your faucets and having to clean your coffee-maker or kettle from white mineral build up every few weeks). If you know you have REALLY HARD water, then we need to deal with that.... A gallon of real distilled water would fix that problem. Another tipoff would be that you can't get your shampoo to lather, no suds in your laundry and you have to chip all that white crud off your taps to get some water in your glass!

The warmer the water, the faster it will dissolve soap and the faster you can create lather. The colder the water, the longer it will take to dissolve the soap and make lather.


And yes, some soaps and creams are crappy...... but you should still be able to get them to lather... If you are using a cream, something around the size of a level measuring teaspoon should be fine to start... again, you'll probably need to adjust it up or down as necessary, but that would be a good start. I often hear "pea size" as a measure, but I tend to use a "half a shrivelled walnut's worth" If you start with a toothpick's worth of cream, you are going to have a hard time getting enough lather to shave with.

Those pictures of huge billowing piles of shaving lather... bah, it's dry and useless, but looks impressive for the camera. If you have trouble making enough lather for a picture, grab a can of goo from the store and add it before taking the picture!

The soap/cream has 3 basic purposes:

1: Lubricate your face during shaving.... allow the blade to glide effortlessly across the skin and help the water to permeate and soften your beard.

2: The hairs are softened by *water and a surfactant", so you want as much water as you can get into the lather and soap is a surfactant, the lather is there to keep the water on your face! It's called wet shaving for a reason.

3: And of least importance perhaps, lather lets you see where you have already shaved and collects the stubble into an easy to wipe off glob on your razor.


Regards

Christian

As noted above, I've done it all kinds of ways, and maybe following your instructions I've done it that way too, and maybe it came out good sometimes. I'm not sure about the water. I have tried bottled water, but I don't think I have particularly hard water. It comes from an aquifer in my neck of the woods, and there is probably some mineral content no doubt. I think it is semi hard. Medium you might say. No problem lathering body soap, or shampoo, but sometimes not easy to rinse off.

It seems when I have loaded the brush in the old way I used to do it I'd get so much water that I would have lather dripping off of my face onto the sink as I lathered. Shaking out the brush more would leave me with less than needed. I always did better bowl lathering than face lathering, in terms of the amount generated. I prefer face lathering because it is less time and work than bowl lathering. I guess proper lathering is not for the lazy.

I was discussing this with Lynn a while back and he suggested just getting the tips of the brush wet, if I understood him correctly, and not loading the brush beyond the tips, would allow good flow through. So for awhile I continued soaking the brush and then, after the shake out, swirling until the tips were apparently loaded. Then Phrank posted about just wetting the tips, and that reminded me of the conversation with Lynn, and I began just dipping the tips instead of soaking.

It has been 'hit and miss' since then. IOW, sometimes I get a home run, and other times I strike out. I'm going to try some of the suggestions all of y'all have made and see if this old man can get it figured out. Got to go to my primary care for my 6 month checkup within an hour so I'm hitting the shower and gonna shave shortly. I'll letcha know how it works out.

I like a wet lather and build lather on my face.

I use a double boiler type scuttle, and heat the brush in the scuttle, pouring a bit of water on a puck, if using a hard soap, by dabbing the wet brush on the soap. I remove the brush from the water after stropping a razor, dump the water and shake the brush once into the scuttle, (about a ¼ inch of water).

Then shake the water from the brush, a couple more shakes into the sink. I load the brush, and lather on my face. If needed, I dip the tips into the hot water in the scuttle and build lather on my face.

I then drop the brush into the scuttle, with the tips of the brush sitting in water.

On the second pass the tips are wet, but the body of the brush is fully loaded and I can build the lather, I need by how much pressure I use. More pressure, more soap. If I need more water, I just dip the brush again.

Good lather, is all about the water, and this method gives me the best control of the amount of water. 2-3 drops of Glycerin on the puck works well if you have hard water. A bottle is $6 at Wallgreen’s, and will last years.

Thanks to all who replied with their methods and suggestions. Keep 'em coming. I shaved this morning before my Dr's appointment. All good with that, thank God. I used more water. Soaked the brush, and the puck, while I was in the shower. Czech & Speake 88 was the soap, and a Simpson M-7 brush.

Lather was much better. I was a bit constrained for time, so in the coming days I will do more experimenting. Seems there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it isn't the train coming ..........

I've struggled too, but had the best success by being a "tip dipper", but having a little water on the puck, if it's a soap day. I use all temperatures...cold in the summer warm to hot in the winter, but always spend a long time loading the brush. Since I mostly face lather, I find I have more patience loading on the puck than I do swirling on my face.

I try to get the brush well loaded adding a little water to the tips if it starts to seem too dry. When the brush is really loaded (which depends one brush, I think) I go to my face, which I dampen a little first...then I swirl and paint on my face until I run out of patience. Sometimes I add a little water along the way.

Some soaps I do better than others, but mostly I think it's me. If I get lazy or rushed I mess it up. Good luck trying all these varieties of approach. if you find the magic combo, please share !!

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Thanks to all who replied with their methods and suggestions. Keep 'em coming. I shaved this morning before my Dr's appointment. All good with that, thank God. I used more water. Soaked the brush, and the puck, while I was in the shower. Czech & Speake 88 was the soap, and a Simpson M-7 brush.

Lather was much better. I was a bit constrained for time, so in the coming days I will do more experimenting. Seems there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it isn't the train coming ..........

Congratulations and the C&S 88 soap is excellent. If you load that soap for 45-60 seconds with enough 'pressure' and water, you should easily get enough lather onto the brush. Try to get that sticky/gooey protolather, then take the brush to your face to lather and add water little by little and you should be just fine.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by celestino

Congratulations and the C&S 88 soap is excellent. If you load that soap for 45-60 seconds with enough 'pressure' and water, you should easily get enough lather onto the brush. Try to get that sticky/gooey protolather, then take the brush to your face to lather and add water little by little and you should be just fine.

Good luck.

The "88" is like a plague for me to get lathering properly, sometimes it produces an unbelievable lather, I decide to use it again, and get a dud lather...no figuring that stuff out....same with LPL, some of these soaps are just hit and miss, yet with a whole whack of others, consistent performers every time...no splainin' it ....

Originally Posted by Phrank

The "88" is like a plague for me to get lathering properly, sometimes it produces an unbelievable lather, I decide to use it again, and get a dud lather...no figuring that stuff out....same with LPL, some of these soaps are just hit and miss, yet with a whole whack of others, consistent performers every time...no splainin' it ....

That is interesting. I say that because the 88 and the Lavender are two that I haven't had much problem with. The only thing of note, while the 88 has an aroma I truly like, I can hardly detect the lavender at all. Just a subtle hint. Of course years of chain smoking tobacco pipes haven't done my schnozz any good in the sense of smell dept.