Thread: Information on how badger hair is obtained

This thread is not going to degrade into a discussion on the merits of hunting and trapping..... Keep in on track and tread lightly....

This is the second warning on this thread!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Kees

Not everyone agrees with that. An animal trapped starts to panic, many dislocate the shoulder or hip joint which is very painful, some animals even bite the trapped leg off and limp on making them easy pray for predators or causing slow death due to infection or starvation as they can no longer hunt.

Kees -
While I agree with you on most things regarding razors and straight shaving, I feel that you are relating something with which you have no personal experience. I trapped for over ten years to make ends meet and to put food on the table. I never had an animal do any such thing and they were always dispatched humanely. The bottom line it that a trap line is always run at dawn before the animals have an opportunity to get agitated. While trapping is not something I would do today, it provided meat on the table and furs for profit at a time when I needed it.

Originally Posted by Kees

Not everyone agrees with that. An animal trapped starts to panic, many dislocate the shoulder or hip joint which is very painful, some animals even bite the trapped leg off and limp on making them easy pray for predators or causing slow death due to infection or starvation as they can no longer hunt.

Everyone doesn't agree on anything, ever.

It is sad that some hunters and trappers do not practice humane methods. "It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly." These people should be disciplined. Let us all be thankful that this is the exception though and not the rule. Too bad animals, badgers and their extremely violent, brutal behaviour comes to mind, don't show this same concern for the welfare of their fellow animals.

After two warnings on this thread I am closing it down, it seems that we cannot stay away from a discussion of hunting and trapping on this subject......

You can PM me with any questions

I am opening this so Must Dash can post the follow up conversation with Mr Jagger then closing it back down again..... please no other posts !!!

I spent over an hour on the telephone a few days ago with Neil Jagger of Edwin Jagger. Firstly, I need to make a correction to my earlier post - and a small apology. Although I was aware that the two companies, Muhle and Edwin Jagger, work together, I was not aware of how close the relationship is between them. Nor was I aware of the extent to which Neil Jagger has been involved with Christian Mueller in seeking information about the way in which badger hair is sourced and in selecting their joint suppliers.

I would like to make a couple of observations. A five minute conversation is sufficient time for any company to provide a quick spin on the facts, tell me what they think I would like to hear and add a layer of gloss. An hour long, far-ranging, discussion is a very different matter. Neil Jagger very clearly has considerable knowledge about the way that his industry operates. It is equally clear that he cares deeply not just about the standard of products that his company manufactures but also about the way in which his company participates in the industry. He is willing to be open and transparent about what he knows about the manner in which badgers are caught and killed and what questions are still unanswered. By the end of the conversation we had both learned more about the value of communication and dialogue and I put down the phone impressed with his integrity. Again, I feel compelled to contrast this with other shaving brush manufacturers who were repeatedly asked to provide meaningful information and repeatedly failed to do so.

Neil Jagger also informed me that he and Christian Mueller have undertaken to provide a much more detailed statement around the end of October. Having received answers to their questions, they are now seeking to verify those answers through other parties and through corroborating information. With this comes the caveat that not everything can be ascertained and, as Christian Mueller noted in his earlier response, it is not possible to trace the line back to individual hunters.

Again, for those of you who may have doubts, I want to make it clear that my involvement with the shaving industry is only as a consumer. However, as a consumer, I care a lot about who I buy from. The fact that Mr Mueller and Mr Jagger are doing so much to lead the charge, to me at least, says a great deal about them and the nature of the companies that they run.

I also believe that this reinforces the increased role that technology enables us to have as consumers. Forums such as this one, and the open discussions that take place on sites such as Facebook, MySpace, Twitter etc. make it much harder for companies to keep secrets, and problems, from their customers. The smarter ones understand this and have learned the value of being open and honest in their communication. Other companies have yet to catch on. (Steps down from soapbox.)

Cheers


Jeremy


Note: The moderators have kindly reopened this thread temporarily in order to enable me to correct and add detail to my original post. Thank you.